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Thread: No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You're being purposely obtuse and dodgy. This is actually very unlike you rogue. Answer a question: Does a person have a right to resist if they believe they're being assaulted by cops? Yes or no answer.
    I'll answer, yes they do have that "right". However, it's a risk, because most folks really don't know what they're talking about when they say they were assaulted by police. If it turns out, which is likely, that the police are doing their legitimate duty, then you go down hard for resisting.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by NO1 View Post
    There is somthing wrong in the legal system if the officer got away with it.
    No, not really -- It works perfectly. America views crime as an 'exception' to the higher righteous path. Thus when our white cops kill blacks and then exonerate themselves for it, the blame can be placed on the failure of the black person to be living that holy righteous path, rather than it being understood that (1) people are products of their circumstances -- i.e. the cyclical nature of poverty -- or (2) that we have a systemic corruption of our police forces -- i.e. the Blue Code of Silence.

    Then we whites can all shake our heads and blame black people for being forced to live in slums with no jobs, where the local schools are sunk by how this country funds education (through property taxes of the local community, i.e. the slum) and where the streets are full of desperate impoverished, uneducated people doing their best to stay afloat.
    Last edited by brothern; 12-04-14 at 02:41 PM.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    I guess if while we are walking down the street, any police officer can simply walk over and grab us. Then we are supposed to instantly freeze and allow ourselves to be man-handled or be thrown down and choked to death.
    The police junkies are adamant that it is every citizen's duty to submit to being beaten to death by the police. Police can violently attack anyone as their way of first informing someone they are under arrest - even if for an administrative or minor misdemeanor alleged offense based upon alleged 3rd hand verbal information by someone whose name is unknown - and if the person makes any attempt to shield their body or prevent being physically harmed or killed by the police - that person is committing the crime of "resisting arrest." If not, still the police were assaulting the person because otherwise the person might resist.

    Putting in real perspective... if a police officer says someone - whose name they didn't even take - told him the parking meter you were at was expired when you drove away - later multiple police officers could attack you without warning, throw you to the concrete, one put his full body weight on your head into the concrete, another his body weight on your back, while chocking you...

    ... as their method of informing you that you are under arrest and to prevent you from resisting that arrest.

    People who are extreme police junkies like that are very, very frightened people. They want a total police state of absolute police powers because they are so very afraid themselves. Nor can they tolerate any person is doesn't share their level of terror and submissiveness.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I'll answer, yes they do have that "right".
    Ah good, excellent. Then if Eric Garner was not informed that he was being arrested, he had a legitimate right to defend himself against what he felt was the harassment of his person and the NYPD were in the wrong.

    However, it's a risk, because most folks really don't know what they're talking about when they say they were assaulted by police. If it turns out, which is likely, that the police are doing their legitimate duty, then you go down hard for resisting.
    Let's play the real vs. fake game! If what you consider to be a threat doesn't match up to the narrative apologists want, it's not really a threat.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You're being purposely obtuse and dodgy. This is actually very unlike you rogue. Answer a question: Does a person have a right to resist if they believe they're being assaulted by cops? Yes or no answer.
    Not if they know they are being detained/arrested for a crime or suspicion of one. This could not be legitimately viewed as "assault". Excessive force, possibly. But it is wrong to claim some crap about this being a criminal assault by police, giving him the right to resist.

    Evidence? Early in the video I saw, the cop said that he saw him sell something to someone in a red shirt indicating this wasn't just a guy that thought he was getting randomly jumped by a guy/group of guys that were also cops, but rather they were stopping and questioning him about some illegal activity. This doesn't mean that the cops didn't lie or weren't making it up, but it does mean that they could provide evidence that they had at least a reasonable suspicion he was involved in something illegal, which gives them reason to detain, which he was resisting, giving them reason to attempt arrest, without necessarily requiring immediate announcement of that arrest.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    BEFORE THE TAPE BEGINS. Can you see it now?

    Death of Eric Garner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Heya CB. Oh, and here they do say he swatted their arms away, huh? I'll bet the 23 Jurors saw that as resisting.

    Because everytime you see me, you want to harass me. You want to stop me [garbled] Selling cigarettes. I'm minding my business, officer, I'm minding my business. Please just leave me alone. I told you the last time, please just leave me alone."[25] Garner swatted their arms away, saying, "Don't touch me, please." He was then put in a chokehold or headlock from behind by officer Daniel Pantaleo, in order to be subdued.....

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, Lutherf.

    I guess the media has been told to show us that people are being targeted by the police, even though all concerned have broken the law in some way, or the police would not be involved. Why the big push to demonize policemen now? They're still the ones I would call if I have someone trying to break into my house, and I'm glad they're just a phone call away, but then I'm not out causing problems either! It will be interesting to see what decision will be reached in this case, since this man died as a result of the way he was handled. Would a stun gun have caused the same result?
    Howdy P!

    Yes, there appears to be a new wave of "victimization" in this country. In the 60's we were trying to overcome adversity. Sure, people advocated for the rights of women and the rights of blacks but there was a general presumption that blacks and women would also strive to overcome those things that were holding them back. It was a two sided effort.

    However, at that same time there arose an academic cadre that discovered that there was a lot of power and money to be had in "victim assistance". If you were a good "victim's advocate" or "community organizer" you could get a whole lot of say in how much money the government should provide to assist the cause of equality. You could also have a lot of say in how and to whom that money got distributed.

    It wasn't too long after that realization that it became apparent to some that all these people that were being helped made up one heck of a bloc of voters and how better to secure votes than by the old carrot and stick routine? You could hand out "assistance" with one hand but there would always be the understanding that disagreement with the system would mean that assistance would be at risk.

    The last revelation in the chain was that if this voting bloc could be expanded quite a bit if only more people were victims of "inequality" and needed assistance. That's where we are now. There is a MASSIVE effort to get people to believe that they are victims of something. Blacks are supposed to be victims of whites. Gays are supposed to be victims of straights. Atheists are supposed to be victims of theists. Blondes are victims of brunettes. Everyone is a victim of corporations and government is a victim of the people.

    Welcome to the 21st Century!!!

    It's not what I pictured but it seems to be what I have to deal with.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    What I object to is the defacto claim that it was criminal behavior because Gardener died. The number of contributing physical ailments that made a 6'3" 360 man so amazingly frail could not have been known by the arresting officers.
    It's not solely because he died in police custody. It's because the way they restrained him, when he wasn't being in any way violent, both violated NYPD policy and caused his death.

    In addition, while keeping in mind that none of us have seen the testimony or evidence presented to the grand jury, it's stunning that the prosecutor was unable to secure an indictment.

    I certainly see why people are upset that the indictment was declined.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Not if they know they are being detained/arrested for a crime or suspicion of one. This could not be legitimately viewed as "assault". Excessive force, possibly. But it is wrong to claim some crap about this being a criminal assault by police, giving him the right to resist.

    Evidence? Early in the video I saw, the cop said that he saw him sell something to someone in a red shirt indicating this wasn't just a guy that thought he was getting randomly jumped by a guy/group of guys that were also cops, but rather they were stopping and questioning him about some illegal activity. This doesn't mean that the cops didn't lie or weren't making it up, but it does mean that they could provide evidence that they had at least a reasonable suspicion he was involved in something illegal, which gives them reason to detain, which he was resisting, giving them reason to attempt arrest, without necessarily requiring immediate announcement of that arrest.
    Where is this guy with a red shirt? If he saw this guy in a red where in the hell is he? The best the officer was able to do was say he saw this guy that apparently exists, which honestly isn't enough.

  10. #1140
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Ah good, excellent. Then if Eric Garner was not informed that he was being arrested, he had a legitimate right to defend himself against what he felt was the harassment of his person and the NYPD were in the wrong.
    False conclusion on your part. You asked a specific question and got a specific answer. Can't apply it generally. Who said he didn't know they were placing him under arrest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Let's play the real vs. fake game! If what you consider to be a threat doesn't match up to the narrative apologists want, it's not really a threat.
    Let's not play, you're not very good at it.

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