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Thread: No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Ummm, no - his actions and words show he believed he believed he was being harassed. These are his words:





    Shoulda-coulda-woulda doesn't change the question I asked you: If a cop is under no responsibility to warn a person that they're being placed under arrest, do civilians have a right to defend themselves if they feel they're being assaulted?

    If yes, then Eric Garner's actions can also take the dimension that he resisted what he believed to be an assault.
    If no, then you officially make it clear that civilians do not have a right to defend themselves from police action which they feel places them in harm's way.

    No only is the answer that goes with "no" absolutely draconian, it basically gives police officers carte blanche to ignore an American's civil rights.

    Once again, there is no "you're under arrest" or "put your hands behind your back" or anything like it. Nor at any time was he told he is being detained in any way.

    Rather, he was violently assaulted from behind while another officer - and then still another - also attacked/assaulted him. At no time has he indicated any threat to the officers or any attempt to flee.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    I guess if while we are walking down the street, any police officer can simply walk over and grab us. Then we are supposed to instantly freeze and allow ourselves to be man-handled or be thrown down and choked to death.
    Then we get to hear about how they saw something.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    single pack, not cigarettes.
    I missed that. Apologies you are correct.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Incorrect.

    The officers were NOT using acceptable methods of restraint. The NYPD barred the use of choke holds in 1993, for this very reason.

    Eric Gardner refused to cooperate with a single officer. When backup arrived, all Mr Gardner did was wave his hands and say "don't touch me." He did not touch any of the officers, he was not armed, he was not hostile. While the first officer was trying to grab his hands, a second officer was behind him, went straight for his neck, threw him onto the ground, and maintained the choke hold while 5 officers restrained him. The officer released his neck, while another sat on his back, and Mr Gardner complained "I can't breathe."

    Resisting arrest is not a capital crime.
    No, but apparently being an obese criminal on the edge of a heart attack while continuing to commit crimes is.

    The officer broke no law but did break department policy. The internal police hearing for that was held until the GJ gave it's decision. I'm betting he loses his job now that the press and the ugly racists/community organizers are involved.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    BEFORE THE TAPE BEGINS. Can you see it now?

    Death of Eric Garner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    No, it does not say he was told he was being placed under arrest. It states they started to arrest him by attacking him.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Maybe Garner was accidently "Burked" by the police?

    "Burking" was (and on rare occasions still is) a method used by English criminals to kill somebody, with out leaving any injuries on the victim's body. In addition, even experienced coroners have difficulty establishing the true cause of death- it often looks like a heart attack.

    Basically, the persons air supply is cut off (choke hold) and then somebody else sits on his chest, and thus compresses it. Evidently, a person is poor physical condition like Garner does not need to be "Burked" very long to kill him.

    As a side note, this casino heir (and heroin addict- short "Burking" time, no defensive marks from a long struggle) was murdered by the technique Articles about Ted Binion - Los Angeles Times It took the coroner along time to figure out what happened.
    There is no doubt after the fact that the take down of Gardener lead to his death. I don't think a "burking" would be technically true because the choke hold was released once he was on the ground. I do believe that Gardener's asthma, weight and pressure of the officer on his back all contributed to Gardener's death. What I object to is the defacto claim that it was criminal behavior because Gardener died. The number of contributing physical ailments that made a 6'3" 360 man so amazingly frail could not have been known by the arresting officers.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    ... Yes, I understand what it means. However, by stating the facts that A) blacks are distrustful of police and B) this is due to factual discrepancies in sentencing (which go by race) is not paraphrasing: cops are there to harass black people. I'll give you one more shot to be honest what he said and post something even remotely consistent with what you claimed he alluded to.
    My words are more than adequate to describe, Obama, Holder, and Al Sharpton's rhetoric.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Once again, there is no "you're under arrest" or "put your hands behind your back" or anything like it. Nor at any time was he told he is being detained in any way.

    Rather, he was violently assaulted from behind while another officer - and then still another - also attacked/assaulted him. At no time has he indicated any threat to the officers or any attempt to flee.
    It's absolutely insane that people think that an officer approaching him from behind and putting him in a chokehold shows that he knew he was being arrested. Utter nonsense.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Ummm, no - his actions and words show he believed he believed he was being harassed. These are his words:





    Shoulda-coulda-woulda doesn't change the question I asked you: If a cop is under no responsibility to warn a person that they're being placed under arrest, do civilians have a right to defend themselves if they feel they're being assaulted?

    If yes, then Eric Garner's actions can also take the dimension that he resisted what he believed to be an assault.
    If no, then you officially make it clear that civilians do not have a right to defend themselves from police action which they feel places them in harm's way.

    No only is the answer that goes with "no" absolutely draconian, it basically gives police officers carte blanche to ignore an American's civil rights.
    Whether you approve or not, there is no evidence they violated any of his rights in the case of not announcing he was under arrest. They can easily use the incident itself to justify not saying the words "you're under arrest", and the fact that he knew who they were. The resistance happened before the takedown, the force applied that contributed to his death. Was this even questioned during the GJ proceedings? This is seems completely silly for an argument in these circumstances.

    It's like people are searching for reasons to blame the cops, rather than actually using the very relevant information from the case and questionable actions. From a reasonable person point of view, it was obvious he knew they were cops and he was possibly going to be arrested, and was resisting (although mildly).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Another truly desperate message by a police groupie.

    Now it isn't that he WAS resisting arrest, rather he "announced his intent to resist arrest."

    Thus, in your opinion, police can chock anyone, throw anyone to the concrete, shove the person's head into the concrete and crush anyone - because the person may be going to resist arrest?

    I suppose, if you really, really tried you could find some reasoning more ridiculous, but it will take some effort.
    No to all of that nonsense. I first familiarized myself with the facts of the case that are published. THEN I made my own decision.

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