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Thread: No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

  1. #1101
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    So let's assume that they did? Even when the suspect has an extensive history of EXACTLY what he was accused of doing?

    Look, that kind of disagreement is why there needed to be an investigation and if Garner had allowed that investigation to happen he likely wouldn't have been restrained. It's just that simple. If he REALLY thought that the cops were harassing him all he had to do was let things go, get names of the cops and find a lawyer to help him sue for harassment.
    Greetings, Lutherf.

    I guess the media has been told to show us that people are being targeted by the police, even though all concerned have broken the law in some way, or the police would not be involved. Why the big push to demonize policemen now? They're still the ones I would call if I have someone trying to break into my house, and I'm glad they're just a phone call away, but then I'm not out causing problems either! It will be interesting to see what decision will be reached in this case, since this man died as a result of the way he was handled. Would a stun gun have caused the same result?

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The video was kind of blurry, but Gardner never seemed to close his fists or take a swing in self defense the entire time, not even while he was being taken down or struggling for his last breath. He was a big man, why didn't he fight back? I can only think he might have been more afraid of getting shot full of holes than pummeled.

    Something is amiss when %99.999(?) of all GJ cases get an indictment but the one that has video evidence clearly showing an illegal choke hold resulting in death and witnessed by millions doesn't??? Yes, it's very hard to believe.
    Heya Moot. Its not illegal with the law to use a choke hold and not if an officer thought his life was in danger.

    Also, in the video Garner raises his hand and slightly pushes the officer back or to hold him up.




    Officers Move In

    Two officers move to arrest him. Mr. Garner pulls his hands away, again raising the question of resistance. The difference in size between the officers and Mr. Garner is apparent.

    Legal issues : Whether Officer Pantaleo felt his life was threatened could also be an issue in whether he acted criminally. If the grand jury viewed Officer Pantaleo’s actions as self-defense, then there would be no crime, said Eugene O'Donnell, a former police officer and professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

    Officer Pantaleo Officer Pantaleo said he became fearful when he was wedged between Mr. Garner and the plate glass window of a storefront and felt it buckle.....snip~

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    His actions and words showed that he believed he was being placed under arrest, by the police, even if he didn't believe he should have been. There is no question there, no ambiguity or question about what is happening, especially during the actual resistance.
    Point to the time in the video when he was told he was under arrest?

    I've asked this many times - and not ONE person raging "he was resisting arrest!" has ever done so.

    What I see is one officer jumped on his back with a chock hold from behind while another officer distracted him by poking at his chest and reaching towards his arm.

    WHERE IN THE TAPE WAS HE TOLD "YOU ARE UNDER ARREST?"

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    You should repeat this excellent message now and then.
    Thanks. As a side note, the technique is samed after an English criminal named "Burke", who perfected it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Oh bulls***. First off, Gardener didn't die of shock. Second, anyone who would go in to fatal circulatory shock after a 2 second choke would likely not be standing on a street corner. The amount of cellular oxygen deprivation needed as a prerequisite to start a cascading lethal shock to the system after only 2 seconds of chocking would need to be so pervasive that the person would be non-functional even before the choking.
    No, not shock, and not choking. My bet is that he was accidently "Burked"

    Basically, the persons air supply is cut off (choke hold) and then somebody else sits on his chest, and thus compresses it. Evidently, a person is poor physical condition like Garner does not need to be "Burked" very long to kill him.

    As a side note, this casino heir (and heroin addict- short "Burking" time, no defensive marks from a long struggle) was murdered by the technique http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/ted-binion It took the coroner along time to figure out what happened.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 12-04-14 at 02:18 PM.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Point to the time in the video when he was told he was under arrest?

    I've asked this many times - and not ONE person raging "he was resisting arrest!" has ever done so.

    What I see is one officer jumped on his back with a chock hold from behind while another officer distracted him by poking at his chest and reaching towards his arm.

    WHERE IN THE TAPE WAS HE TOLD "YOU ARE UNDER ARREST?"
    BEFORE THE TAPE BEGINS. Can you see it now?

    Death of Eric Garner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by clownboy; 12-04-14 at 02:19 PM.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    He was suspected of selling loosies. The cops believed that they witnessed a criminal act committed by an individual known to have a history of such acts. Their intent and their responsibility was to investigate. The suspect intentionally, willfully and actively resisted and impeded that investigation. That resistance warranted physical restraint by the officers. Their efforts to restrain the suspect were consistent with basic use of force doctrine and were not overly aggressive but, unfortunately, lead to the death of the suspect.
    Incorrect.

    The officers were NOT using acceptable methods of restraint. The NYPD barred the use of choke holds in 1993, for this very reason.

    Eric Garner refused to cooperate with a single officer. When backup arrived, all Mr Garner did was wave his hands and say "don't touch me." He did not touch any of the officers, he was not armed, he was not hostile. While the first officer was trying to grab his hands, a second officer was behind him, went straight for his neck, threw him onto the ground, and maintained the choke hold while 5 officers restrained him. The officer released his neck, while another sat on his back, and Mr Garner complained "I can't breathe."

    Resisting arrest is not a capital crime.
    Last edited by Visbek; 12-04-14 at 02:24 PM.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Point to the time in the video when he was told he was under arrest?

    I've asked this many times - and not ONE person raging "he was resisting arrest!" has ever done so.

    What I see is one officer jumped on his back with a chock hold from behind while another officer distracted him by poking at his chest and reaching towards his arm.

    WHERE IN THE TAPE WAS HE TOLD "YOU ARE UNDER ARREST?"
    Where have I said that this is in the video? No, I'm arguing that a) they didn't have to given the circumstances but b) it is possible they told him they were arresting him prior to the start of the video. We don't know. But he obviously "knew" he was being arrested.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So... if they have not obligation to tell you that you're under arrest.... how is a person still guilty of resisting something they didn't know they were under? If police are not under obligation to tell a person they're under arrest, isn't a resistance to arrest just self defense? Genuine question.
    I guess if while we are walking down the street, any police officer can simply walk over and grab us. Then we are supposed to instantly freeze and allow ourselves to be man-handled or be thrown down and choked to death.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    His actions and words showed that he believed he was being placed under arrest,
    Ummm, no - his actions and words show he believed he believed he was being harassed. These are his words:



    by the police, even if he didn't believe he should have been. There is no question there, no ambiguity or question about what is happening, especially during the actual resistance.
    Shoulda-coulda-woulda doesn't change the question I asked you: If a cop is under no responsibility to warn a person that they're being placed under arrest, do civilians have a right to defend themselves if they feel they're being assaulted?

    If yes, then Eric Garner's actions can also take the dimension that he resisted what he believed to be an assault.
    If no, then you officially make it clear that civilians do not have a right to defend themselves from police action which they feel places them in harm's way.

    No only is the answer that goes with "no" absolutely draconian, it basically gives police officers carte blanche to ignore an American's civil rights.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    There's really no need to go there with all the imagined scenarios. That's not what happened here. He announced his intent to resist arrest before they even touched him. the 32cd time being arrested was just too much for him.
    Another truly desperate message by a police groupie.

    Now it isn't that he WAS resisting arrest, rather he "announced his intent to resist arrest."

    Thus, in your opinion, police can chock anyone, throw anyone to the concrete, shove the person's head into the concrete and crush anyone - because the person may be going to resist arrest?

    I suppose, if you really, really tried you could find some reasoning more ridiculous, but it will take some effort.

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