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Thread: No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

  1. #1091
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    You are having a serious problem with your positive and negative tags. It's hard to gather what you are saying.

    But no, a 13 second choke hold can't be considered lethal. As I said before, the only way a 13 second choke can be considered lethal is if it crushed the windpipe in the process making it impossible to breathe even when the neck isn't compressed. The coroner report showed no signs of damage to the windpipe or vertebrae of the neck so the choke hold was about as "lethal" as holding your breath for 13 seconds.
    Maybe Garner was accidently "Burked" by the police?

    "Burking" was (and on rare occasions still is) a method used by English criminals to kill somebody, with out leaving any injuries on the victim's body. In addition, even experienced coroners have difficulty establishing the true cause of death- it often looks like a heart attack.

    Basically, the persons air supply is cut off (choke hold) and then somebody else sits on his chest, and thus compresses it. Evidently, a person is poor physical condition like Garner does not need to be "Burked" very long to kill him.

    As a side note, this casino heir (and heroin addict- short "Burking" time, no defensive marks from a long struggle) was murdered by the technique Articles about Ted Binion - Los Angeles Times It took the coroner along time to figure out what happened.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 12-04-14 at 02:13 PM.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Depends on circumstances. In the case you described, likely wouldn't go over, and cop gets into trouble. This case though is very different. The guy knew he was being placed under arrest and that these guys were cops.
    Ummm... he knew was being placed under arrest when he wasn't informed of it? Why isn't it possible he defended himself from what he saw as an unlawful assault? Again, that's the glaring hole in your argument that cops don't have to inform people of their arrests.... What is to stop a civilian from considering a cop's approach as an incoming assault and defending themselves accordingly?
    Last edited by Hatuey; 12-04-14 at 02:07 PM.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Did you see anything that shows the cop was purposely and with deliberate intent, trying to kill Garner?

    No like I said most that resist don't die.....but many don't like their hands behind their backs.....and they will tell the cops they are having trouble breathing. That's without a cop even holding them or touching them. Just sitting there on a sidewalk or in the back of the squad.

    Hard to believe.....huh?
    The video was kind of blurry, but Gardner never seemed to close his fists or take a swing in self defense the entire time, not even while he was being taken down or struggling for his last breath. He was a big man, why didn't he fight back? I can only think he might have been more afraid of getting shot full of holes than pummeled.

    Something is amiss when %99.999(?) of all GJ cases get an indictment but the one that has video evidence clearly showing an illegal choke hold resulting in death and witnessed by millions doesn't??? Yes, it's very hard to believe.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    English, please.
    Oh did you have trouble with that English.....please inform us with your lack of English education and your confusion as to which which English word or words caused the grey matter to harden and not act like a sponge.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Pretty sure if the man hadnt resisted the police doing their job, he would be alive today.

    So...when that guy gets pulled over for suspicion of DUI and doesnt want to comply with officers, you think the officers should just say, meh...**** it...OK...carry on?
    He wasn't pulled over for DUI, was he?

    Would it be fair to say that it is your opinion those who fought in the American Revolutionary War were perfectly evil and should have been killed for "resisting?"

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    There was no way for police officers to know that an morbidly obese older man was not physically fit enough to be tackled by multiple men, chocked and his head pressed into the concrete - and his saying he couldn't breathe certainly could be considered merely a tactical lie by the man hoping to make a counter attack. (that's a sneering statement).

    What is MOST important is his 6 children and grandchildren are explained how evil and stupid their father was and why he had to die, which really their father deciding to commit suicide by cop.

    Would it fair to estimate his child and his wife will hate all police officers down to the marrow of their bones for the rest of their lives?

    This shouldn't have happened. Murder? No. Off the charts? Absolutely.

    However, there is the police union, so even discipline strictly prohibited.

    The man's mistake - if he was selling one cigarette at a time where they are taxed to the point to being only a rich man's luxury in NYC - was he tried to earn a living. Really, he should have been collecting disability and staying home - unless out protesting for more benefits.


    Under the law it is called "taken as found". Any condition, disease, substances ingested are irrelevant.

    In the end it is this: The police officer made physical contact and the man died. He would not have died, according to the coroner, has the officer not done what he did.

    That in most areas is homicide, death at the hands of another person or persons.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    So cops can touch you whenever they want and if you "resist" then that gives them precedence to arrest with force? According to the wording of that law a cop can come up to you and rub your face sensually. And if you physically flinch or move back he suddenly gets a free pass from the whole "arresting thing" and he can now assault you legally?
    There's really no need to go there with all the imagined scenarios. That's not what happened here. He announced his intent to resist arrest before they even touched him. the 32cd time being arrested was just too much for him.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Ummm... he knew was being placed under arrest when he wasn't informed of it? Why isn't it possible he defended himself from what he saw as an unlawful assault? Again, that's the glaring hole in your argument that cops don't have to inform people of their arrests.... What is to stop a civilian from considering a cop's approach as an incoming assault and defending themselves accordingly?
    His actions and words showed that he believed he was being placed under arrest, by the police, even if he didn't believe he should have been. There is no question there, no ambiguity or question about what is happening, especially during the actual resistance.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Maybe Garner was accidently "Burked" by the police?

    "Burking" was (and on rare occasions still is) a method used by English criminals to kill somebody with out leaving any injuries on the victim's body. In addition, even experienced coroners have difficulty establishing the true cause of death- it often looks like a heart attack.

    Basically, the persons air supply is cut off (choke hold) and then somebody else sits on his chest, and thus compresses it. Evidently, a person is poor physical condition like Garner does not need to be "Burked" very long to kill him.

    As a side note, this casino heir (and heroin addict- short "Burking" time, no marks from long struggle) was murdered by the technique Articles about Ted Binion - Los Angeles Times It took the coroner along time to figure out what happened.
    You should repeat this excellent message now and then.

  10. #1100
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Yes it can. If you perform 100% bloodflow restriction an average man could die in 2 seconds of choking if he goes into shock. Now add in the fact that this guy had much more mass and his circulatory system is naturally more taxed. Plus the stress from being ambushed in a unlawful arrest... That officer was really crankin on his neck hard too and digging into it. The officer wanted to dominate him and it cost the man his life.
    Oh bulls***. First off, Gardener didn't die of shock. Second, anyone who would go in to fatal circulatory shock after a 2 second choke would likely not be standing on a street corner. The amount of cellular oxygen deprivation needed as a prerequisite to start a cascading lethal shock to the system after only 2 seconds of chocking would need to be so pervasive that the person would be non-functional even before the choking.
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