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Thread: No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

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    Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Obama claimed police are in the community to harass people? Holder claimed that? Please show links! I'll wait.
    Do a YouTube search. He stirs the racist pot quite often.

    Here a couple of his latest comments speaking to the NAACP.

    “In too many communities around the country, a gulf of mistrust exists between local residents and law enforcement. Too many young men of color feel targeted by law enforcement,” adding “Guilty of walking while black or driving while black; judged by stereotypes that fuel fear and resentment and hopelessness.”

    “We know that statistically, in everything from enforcing drug policy to applying the death penalty to pulling people over there are significant racial disparities, that’s just the statistics.”

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Pretty sure if the man hadnt resisted the police doing their job, he would be alive today.

    So...when that guy gets pulled over for suspicion of DUI and doesnt want to comply with officers, you think the officers should just say, meh...**** it...OK...carry on?
    If a guy gets pulled over for a DUI, I'd prefer if the cops didn't just kill him.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    We all chose how we wish to represent ourselves to others, you chose to be vulgar.
    Vulgarity is in the eye of the beholder also.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Maybe uncomfrotable. thats about it.
    Agree with you about it being uncomfortable. Being made more difficult to breath is definitely uncomfortable (though I know you disagree with me that such a thing happened here in the later case).

    arm across throat his only leverage is his bicep, in that position which he has none, so it's not chocking his windpipe, evidenced by his screams ironically of "i can't breath"
    Granted, I haven't seen the video so I can't speak well to his words. If he was literally screaming, then my belief that it looks like that he not only failed at the blood choke, but didn't even have a good air choke due to not having a flush pressure point was right. It doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't being choked in the sense of what an air choke does, but it would indicate he was being very ineffectually choked and not in any way that should've been able to cause significant damage to a moderately healthy individual. If he more gasping those comments, then I'd figure he had it on a bit tighter.

    I guess part of it is what you're meaning with the word choking. Did he have it on in any way that would reasonably knock a moderately healthy person unconsious? I don't think so at all. Did he have it on in such a way that it potentially negatively impacted his intake of air? Yeah, I think that's absolutely possible from the picture that was posted.

    and he's not paralell to the trachea, he's in a "V" which negates its effects.
    That's where I was having a hard time truly being able to make out where the guys throat was in that picture. As I said, it looked like he didn't have a flush pressure point against the trachea, but rather that his bicep was slanted against it, like /

    That makes for a significantly less effective, but not automatically completely ineffective, air choke, because you're not getting consistent pressure against the windpipe. You're still getting some pressure, so it's going to still inhibit breathing a bit and be somewhat painful...but it's not going to result in passing out in almost any normal case of it.

    the choke he's attempting is a blood flow choke thats so bad it's closer to a wind choke.
    Like I said, I haven't seen the video yet. But based on that picture, if I had to put money that was my guess. It looked like he was trying for a very traditional blood choke, and either was HORRIBLE at applying it correctly OR the guy being choked managed to squirm out of it enough to wind up at that point.

    One always taps for correctly applied chokes, or he can sleep on his mistake.
    Only happened to me once thankfully...was a very neat and freaky experience. Got caught in a triangle at the end of a long evening of training, was trying to get out of it, and next thing I remember was the guy kneeling over me worriedly trying to get me to wake up and emploring the other guys near by "don't tell [my mom]" (I was 17 at the time I think, Mom helped with running Dad's school, and everyone knows the typical over protective mama ). Helped to give me a little bit of a laugh after the sleep.

    One of those things that I was very glad to experience to know how it feels...and to know full well I don't want to feel that again.

    I'm sure it was very uncomfortable, but his complaints of breathing issues, I can be sure it was due to the pressure applied by the other police.
    I don't doubt that added to it as well, but I do think it's reasonable based on the picture I saw to think that the hold was causing him some dififculty breathing. STOPPING him from breathing? No. Making breathing more difficult? Yes. That, combined with pressure applied by the police, combined with his poor conditioning, combined with his health issues, combines to make a bad situation HORRIBLE; but one that probably is avoided if any of those factors is removed.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It is better to submit and fight the court battle than not be allowed to do so at all because you die, especially in a case like this. How successful are you really going to be in this case unless you're batman?

    And we don't know what went on before the video started. I've seen a lot of mixed information. The cops claimed that they saw him sell to someone "in a red shirt", he claimed he didn't. There was also information about an undercover op to catch him selling. Again, we don't know just from the video who is lying, which is enough to say the arrest could have been legit.
    The level of his supposed resistance does not equal the level of force used to detain him.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    The level of his supposed resistance does not equal the level of force used to detain him.
    I have watched this video over and over. The cop never tells the guy he's under arrest.
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    Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Do a YouTube search. He stirs the racist pot quite often.

    Here a couple of his latest comments speaking to the NAACP.

    “In too many communities around the country, a gulf of mistrust exists between local residents and law enforcement. Too many young men of color feel targeted by law enforcement,” adding “Guilty of walking while black or driving while black; judged by stereotypes that fuel fear and resentment and hopelessness.”

    “We know that statistically, in everything from enforcing drug policy to applying the death penalty to pulling people over there are significant racial disparities, that’s just the statistics.”
    Is anything there not true?

    Note, he didn't say "law enforcement targets black people"; he said "young men of color FEEL TARGETED by law enforcement." That is UNDENIABLY true. Why do so many people feel that even addressing the very real issues regarding race in this country is "stirring the racist pot." It seems like conservatives seem to want all acknowledgement of racism to cease immediately.

    And again, none of this has any bearing on whether or not the NYPD used excessive force. Their level of force does not become more or less excessive based on Obama's words.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Do a YouTube search. He stirs the racist pot quite often.

    Here a couple of his latest comments speaking to the NAACP.

    “In too many communities around the country, a gulf of mistrust exists between local residents and law enforcement. Too many young men of color feel targeted by law enforcement,” adding “Guilty of walking while black or driving while black; judged by stereotypes that fuel fear and resentment and hopelessness.”

    “We know that statistically, in everything from enforcing drug policy to applying the death penalty to pulling people over there are significant racial disparities, that’s just the statistics.”
    Is it supposed to be ironic that this all started when Garner broke up a fight? How is breaking up a fight grounds to start an investigation into untaxed cigarettes?

    I'll have to remember that trouble I got into as a teenager might be a problem if I ever decide to break up a fight. If I do I might just find myself getting arrested for drugs.

    I don't know about you, but this looks a lot like the cops were trying to start trouble.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    So at one point moving your hands away means you just signed your ticket to be killed....
    How did you come up with this theory.....by this one case?

    Do you know how many were arrested in NY for resisting arrest and disorderly conduct last night. 70 some people.....why are there no deaths? What happened? They resisted.....why didn't they die? Shouldn't they be dead.....they resisted Right?

    According to you all who resist should die......correct?

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You mean legally it is not assault if you are actively resisting arrest or impeding an official police investigation. What was the probable cause to arrest him again?
    He was suspected of selling loosies. The cops believed that they witnessed a criminal act committed by an individual known to have a history of such acts. Their intent and their responsibility was to investigate. The suspect intentionally, willfully and actively resisted and impeded that investigation. That resistance warranted physical restraint by the officers. Their efforts to restrain the suspect were consistent with basic use of force doctrine and were not overly aggressive but, unfortunately, lead to the death of the suspect.

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