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Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Officers

Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

apdst said:
I'm not opposed to the cameras, but they won't prevent riots like we've seen in Ferguson.

No matter what the video evidence proves, if the verdict isn't the race hustlers want, there will still be riots.
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No, they won't prevent riots, but they'll make the court cases shorter and cheaper.



And hey, they could prevent riots, too. I mean, would people be shouting "Hands up, don't shoot!" if they had footage of a man WITHOUT his hands up for all to see?
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

gdgyva said:
What is the law regarding anything the officer tapes as to whether or not it can be used as evidence against the person being videoed?
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I expect some clarification will be needed, but if the interation is in public space, or if the officer is granted permission to enter private space, then there shouldn't be a problem. If people don't want police in their private spaces, they can step outside.

Does the person have to be mirandized before anything they say or do can be used against them?
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I believe the public\private space guidelines applies here too. My understanding is that Miranda protects you from being compelled to speak after you're arrested. Wouldn't apply to why you were being arrested. Right now, we take the officer's word as golden, barring other evidence. Video can only improve that.

If not, i love the camera idea. It will stop a lot of criminals from getting away with stuff because of technicalities
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I agree. I think it's going to happen eventually, though police will fight it every step of the way. No one likes to be monitored, but it is effective. I've worked in monitored and unmonitored call centers, and the quality of service is much higher the closer people are watched.

Additionally, such monitoring could allow for officers back at HQ to watch what their people are up to in realtime, and send help\orders if needed.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Lutherf said:
I'm not convinced. As others have noted, sometimes the facts just don't seem to matter.
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I like the facts that come from gleaning data from the real implementation of ideas. As mentioned in the original post:

in Rialto, California, found that between 2012 and 2013, in the first year of the city using police cameras, the number of complaints filed against officers fell by 88 percent and use of force by officers fell by almost 60 percent.
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These type of numbers are hard to argue with.

I've lived in countries where lack of oversight encourages rampant police corruption, a heinous problem for any society. I've studied the history of America and heard the stories of the NYC police force from a time long before I was born. To think that the police are always the good guys (or bad guys) is an extreme position that can lead to a slippery slope. If police are doing their jobs well then they shouldn't be opposed to cameras.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Lutherf said:
Maybe it would have helped. Then again, maybe it would have showed nothing because it got knocked off in the scuffle or was pointed forward when the actions was on the left. Maybe even if it showed the whole deal in 1080p people would still complain that it was "doctored" by the cops.

Let's think about one other thing. Let's say that the camera worked just fine and caught everything just exactly the way that Wilson said it happened. What would that solve? Yeah, maybe there wouldn't have been riots but would it have eased the tensions between cops and the community? Would Al Sharpton and Malik Shabazz then suddenly stand in the street and start hollering "We need to clean our act up!" No, that damned sure wouldn't happen. Wilson would be cleared but the problem of cop hate and criminal behavior would still be there. The camera wouldn't have fixed a damned thing.
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Greetings, Lutherf. :2wave:

:agree: How does anyone fix that? Maybe if jobs were more plentiful, it would ease the tensions since people would have something to do other than nurse a feeling that they are being cheated out of something they feel they are owed. Would the rioters in Ferguson feel better about the police if the entire force were black? Is it really racial, or is it just resentment about life in general?
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Giuseppe said:
I like the facts that come from gleaning data from the real implementation of ideas. As mentioned in the original post:



These type of numbers are hard to argue with.

I've lived in countries where lack of oversight encourages rampant police corruption, a heinous problem for any society. I've studied the history of America and heard the stories of the NYC police force from a time long before I was born. To think that the police are always the good guys (or bad guys) is an extreme position that can lead to a slippery slope. If police are doing their jobs well then they shouldn't be opposed to cameras.
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Actually, I posted a link up above in this thread that discusses the discrepancy between cameras in Rialto and cameras in Albuquerque. They aren't the panacea folks would like to believe they are.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

KevinKohler said:
No, they won't prevent riots, but they'll make the court cases shorter and cheaper.



And hey, they could prevent riots, too. I mean, would people be shouting "Hands up, don't shoot!" if they had footage of a man WITHOUT his hands up for all to see?
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They would be shouting something else, while they were burning the town down. ;)
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Lutherf said:
Maybe it would have helped. Then again, maybe it would have showed nothing because it got knocked off in the scuffle or was pointed forward when the actions was on the left. Maybe even if it showed the whole deal in 1080p people would still complain that it was "doctored" by the cops.

Let's think about one other thing. Let's say that the camera worked just fine and caught everything just exactly the way that Wilson said it happened. What would that solve? Yeah, maybe there wouldn't have been riots but would it have eased the tensions between cops and the community? Would Al Sharpton and Malik Shabazz then suddenly stand in the street and start hollering "We need to clean our act up!" No, that damned sure wouldn't happen. Wilson would be cleared but the problem of cop hate and criminal behavior would still be there. The camera wouldn't have fixed a damned thing.
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Even if it was knocked off, I think it would of been very enlightening just to hear the scuffle inside the police car when Brown was reaching for the gun. That right there would of had even more impact than when they released the convenience store video to punch holes in this whole "Michael Brown is a Martyr" thing. But you said it at the end there but I don't want it glossed over; were Wilson to have a camera, he very likely would still have a job as a police officer. For this to have cost him his job is travesty, and something that no one is talking about because all they want to do is put him up as a symbol of police brutality. She married a fellow police officer a short while ago. Is she going to have to deal now with the legacy of this ****? If so, then she'll have to retire as well, costing the town two good police officers. That more than anything is why I argue cops in this day and age need to have those chest mounted cameras. Especially when you consider the prevalence of people with cell phone cameras. It be very easy to run into another Rodney King situation, where only the parts that make the cop look bad are released.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Jango said:
You're right, most cops are good, I haven't and won't lose sight of that, however, the prevalence of immoral and illegal behavior coming from them are and has been on the rise.
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And by the way, this is why I asked how easily it is to get a hold of these videos and the success rate. I'm curious, as one who is keen on this issue, do you have idea of that that success rate is? If there's any data?
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

polgara said:
Greetings, Lutherf. :2wave:

:agree: How does anyone fix that? Maybe if jobs were more plentiful, it would ease the tensions since people would have something to do other than nurse a feeling that they are being cheated out of something they feel they are owed. Would the rioters in Ferguson feel better about the police if the entire force were black? Is it really racial, or is it just resentment about life in general?
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Hi P!!

It takes strong leadership in the community. I think you're really on target with the "resentment about life in general". That crap has been crammed down the throats of these communities by people who profit by keeping them down for decades. Back in the 50's and 60's people the key word was "overcome". Folks were encouraged to better themselves and their communities. They were encouraged to be proud and defiant of those that really did victimize them. Unfortunately, it's hard to stand up to real abuse but it's easy to pick and choose certain nits to pick and call them "abuse". If I were in the shoes of some of these people I'd damned sure have to think twice about ratting out a drug dealer who has made it known that he knows where my kids go to school and where I live. Who knows, maybe I'd turn a blind eye to the shop keeper that got beat up because he didn't pay his protection if I thought I might be next.

These problems aren't really black problems. Over the years they've been Irish problems and Italian problems and Jewish problems, etc. They happen in Asian communities too. If you get a chance take a look at all the stuff Leeland Yee was involved with back in CA. Lots of people have tried lots of stuff to fix the problems but they're endemic and the only thing that EVER fixes them is encouraging successful, healthy, lawful communities and that takes leaders who actually care.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Lutherf said:
Actually, I posted a link up above in this thread that discusses the discrepancy between cameras in Rialto and cameras in Albuquerque. They aren't the panacea folks would like to believe they are.
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I choose to be on the side of transparency not only because it keeps the police in check but also because it can help with the processing of a myriad of tasks the police routinely do. The benefits for efficiency alone are a compelling argument.

So what are some of the negative impacts?
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Alot of opinion for sure about body cams. I worked with quite a few rural OK deputies and a few Sheriffs. Most are for cameras, many already wear a body mic while on one man patrol and at least one deputy was fired for turning his off on a routine traffic stop.

It stops the citizen attempting to claim harassment or unwanted sexual advances when stopped for a traffic violation. It records what was said by whom if the stop escalates.

I don't see it as a tool to prosecute a citizen, but rather a shield to stop false claims against the Officer.

It's time has come... :peace
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

One of the very few things I actually agree with Obama on. While 50k camera's are just a drop of water compared to whats really needed its a very big drop of water. I'm an advocate of police wearing camera's. A picture might be worth a thousand words, but a video is worth a million imo.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Lutherf said:
Hi P!!

It takes strong leadership in the community. I think you're really on target with the "resentment about life in general". That crap has been crammed down the throats of these communities by people who profit by keeping them down for decades. Back in the 50's and 60's people the key word was "overcome". Folks were encouraged to better themselves and their communities. They were encouraged to be proud and defiant of those that really did victimize them. Unfortunately, it's hard to stand up to real abuse but it's easy to pick and choose certain nits to pick and call them "abuse". If I were in the shoes of some of these people I'd damned sure have to think twice about ratting out a drug dealer who has made it known that he knows where my kids go to school and where I live. Who knows, maybe I'd turn a blind eye to the shop keeper that got beat up because he didn't pay his protection if I thought I might be next.

These problems aren't really black problems. Over the years they've been Irish problems and Italian problems and Jewish problems, etc. They happen in Asian communities too. If you get a chance take a look at all the stuff Leeland Yee was involved with back in CA. Lots of people have tried lots of stuff to fix the problems but they're endemic and the only thing that EVER fixes them is encouraging successful, healthy, lawful communities and that takes leaders who actually care.
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One thing we don't need is the divisiveness that is being actively encouraged, and the middle finger that is being given by those that don't feel they have to obey the laws of this country. Professional agitators worsened the Kent State University situation back in 1968 during the Viet Nam era, and people died. Not the agitators, though, they left after inflaming the crowds, who rioted and burned buildings. The same type of thing is being done today in Ferguson, IMO. My suggestion has been if they don't want white policemen, hire black ones for their community and see if their lives improve. This Bull**** has got to stop!
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

A rare occasion where an Obama plan meets with my enthusiastic approval.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

KevinKohler said:
How much has been spent on Ferguson, alone? These things will pay for themselves.
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I hope they do buy those cameras, but I doubt Obama will get the results he's looking for.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Goshin said:
A rare occasion where an Obama plan meets with my enthusiastic approval.
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How quickly do you think those videos will be hidden when they don't get the results they want?
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

American said:
How quickly do you think those videos will be hidden when they don't get the results they want?
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Define 'they'.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Hamster Buddha said:
And by the way, this is why I asked how easily it is to get a hold of these videos and the success rate. I'm curious, as one who is keen on this issue, do you have idea of that that success rate is? If there's any data?
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Probably as successful as wringing information out of the federal government -- a 50/50 chance on whether or not they'll comply with the request, as the FOIA has loopholes officials can state when denying a request, and if it goes further I.e. a lawsuit, then all the authorities have to do is say 'national security' and the judge will overwhelmingly side with the officials in censoring information from becoming public knowledge.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Goshin said:
Define 'they'.
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Listen at about 1:00

 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

gdgyva said:
The White House announced Monday that President Barack Obama will sign an executive order meant to improve training for local law enforcement agencies that receive equipment through federal grant programs. Among the proposed initiatives is a 3-year, $263 million investment package, of which $75 million would go toward covering half the cost of 50,000 officer-mounted cameras -- a technology that has been widely cited as a necessary police reform following the death of Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager shot and killed by Ferguson, Missouri police officer Darren Wilson in August.

Monday's announcement was greeted by some as a victory for transparency in law enforcement. Yet with almost 630,000 police officers working nationwide, it's not clear how much of an effect even 50,000 cameras would have.

Body cameras have long been a popular proposal among police reform advocates, who say that documenting interactions between officers and civilians can help to eliminate bias and uncertainty regarding alleged misconduct by either party. One frequently cited pilot program in Rialto, California, found that between 2012 and 2013, in the first year of the city using police cameras, the number of complaints filed against officers fell by 88 percent and use of force by officers fell by almost 60 percent.

Despite resistance from some police officials and union members who have called the cameras an unnecessary distraction for officers, departments in major cities like Chicago, New York, Minneapolis and Washington, D.C., as well as smaller cities like Ferguson, have started using cameras, or have at least announced plans to do so.

Obama's $75 million program, which still requires congressional approval, would seek to ease the financial burden of outfitting police officers with cameras by providing a 50 percent funding match to states and localities that decide to participate. (Individual cameras cost between $300 and $400, on top of which are the costs associated with storing and maintaining the data recorded by the devices.) But with no ability to compel local police departments to get behind this move, the administration must simply hope that enough law enforcement volunteers are willing to join the program

Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Officers


my question....especially for those who want this

What is the law regarding anything the officer tapes as to whether or not it can be used as evidence against the person being videoed?

Does the person have to be mirandized before anything they say or do can be used against them?

If not, i love the camera idea. It will stop a lot of criminals from getting away with stuff because of technicalities

And yes, they can be used against officers who probably shouldnt be on the force

seems like a win/win......no more cases thrown out
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Not a federal issue. Policing is a state issue.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Goshin said:
Define 'they'.
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On a serious note, "they" is the Obama admin.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

American said:
On a serious note, "they" is the Obama admin.
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I love you bruh, but I think you're going too partisan on this one. Po-po cams are the wave of the future, and they're going to be a good thing.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Start building more prisons because there's going to be more convictions with officers wearing cameras.

It's another liberal idea that will backfire.

How often has liberals /progressives ever been right ? In 1973 libs didn't want to serve in uniform so they ended the draft. Then they didn't want America going to war so they passed the War Powers Act and came up with the "Total Force" policy that the Army couldn't even deploy one combat brigade without calling up the reserves and Guard. How many times has the U.S. Army been deployed into combat since 1973 ? The libs got it wrong again.

What the cameras will reveal, that criminals who don't respect law enforcement who have an attitude problem with cops are going to end up getting their butts whooped when called for and being easily convicted in court and sent to prison. And Al Sharpton and the other race hustlers will be agitating and calling the cameras racist.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

American said:
I hope they do buy those cameras, but I doubt Obama will get the results he's looking for.
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It will take decades to implement this. Obama will just be another ex-President long before this is uniform.

He's making an effort on a practical solution. Who else is in the Ferguson tornado?


American said:
How quickly do you think those videos will be hidden when they don't get the results they want?
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It's not going to be applied or enforced evenly. That's just the multilevel nature of our police forces. It'll be up to the people of the city\county\state to demand they be implemented. One hopes the success stories will help drive that.

What we should be after is an unvarnished accounting of the actual incident? How could that ever fail to serve the public good?

But yeah, the cop themselves will typically hate it at first, and the police unions will fight it tooth and nail.

It will seem insulting and oblige them to adhere to policies that they often let slide at present. It will expose poor officer performance rapidly.
 
Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

Goshin said:
A rare occasion where an Obama plan meets with my enthusiastic approval.
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Greetings, Goshin. :2wave:

:agree: If it takes cameras, then by all means buy them! The only thing that puzzles me is that only 50,000 might be bought to be shared by 650,000 policemen nationwide. I realize that people work in shifts, but that still doesn't seem to be enough, unless they're only to be used in big cities. And would swat teams also get them, or just traffic policemen, etc?
 
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