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Thread: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Officers

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    Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    yep, this needs to happen. it protects the police as much as it protects suspects.
    agreed its a win win and throws accountability in both directions
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    Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I love you bruh, but I think you're going too partisan on this one. Po-po cams are the wave of the future, and they're going to be a good thing.
    Obama promoted the racism in this case, I'm not the one that's too partisan. I think that's HIS reason for the cams.
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    Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    If more real criminals get arrested and convicted (or even better, takes a plea deal because the criminal will know they can't win in court) this liberal and many others will be please. I will also be pleased if there is a reduction in false accusations of misconduct by police. I will also be pleased when charges are dropped against innocent people when the video contradicts the cop's claim of criminal behavior, not only will an innocent person get exonerated, the cost of a trial will be saved.. I will also be pleased when bad cops are caught and kicked off the force, hopefully before the local government has to settle a lawsuit. I will also be pleased when both cops and members of the public interacting with them are on their best behavior because they know that they will be held accountable.
    I completely agree with all of the upsides you list here. If all of these things can happen, police cams will be a winner all around. I'm also going to be optimistic that the net cost in the end will benefit the taxpayers with the presumption that this will save us a lot of money in trial costs. I don't particularly care for local police being ordered to have them, but if the community thinks there's a need, I'm all for communities paying for them.
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    Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I completely agree with all of the upsides you list here. If all of these things can happen, police cams will be a winner all around. I'm also going to be optimistic that the net cost in the end will benefit the taxpayers with the presumption that this will save us a lot of money in trial costs. I don't particularly care for local police being ordered to have them, but if the community thinks there's a need, I'm all for communities paying for them.
    The main argument against these cameras is that... well... corrupt police departments will be exposed. Even if these departments don't necessarily tone down their use of violence, it's irrelevant. These things can be settled in court and that's what lawsuits are for. The fact that Lutherf tried to pass off a crooked department caught on camera being crooked .... as something negative just made me realize how good of an idea this is.
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    Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    The cameras will be minimally effective if at all. It's another "feel good" idea.

    The fact of the matter is that there will always be incidents where the emotional pull for one side or the other will outweigh whatever evidence is presented. There is nothing....absolutely nothing that will change the minds of some folks who believe that Trayvon Martin and/or Mike Brown were murdered. If there was video evidence that Brown punched Wilson, grabbed his gun, and ran back at him there would still be people out there blaming Wilson for stopping him in the first place.

    This camera footage will be subpoenaed for everything and anything. Think about it, somebody gets their nose out of joint because they see a cop yelling at a jaywalker and next thing you know the request goes out for his or her camera footage of the incident. The cop didn't do anything wrong but the yelling will be cause for a civil action against the PD for "creating an uncomfortable environment".
    While in the simplest of consideration, these camera's appear to be a reasonable idea, the laws of unintended consequences seem ripe for application here. Should this move forward, it will interesting to see how rules of evidence are interpreted by the courts, and how much the cost of maintaining the system and the evidence, will actually be.

    Count on the actual costs being tremendous. Weighed against potential litigation savings, it's hard to estimate where "X" crosses "Y".

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    Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The main argument against these cameras is that... well... corrupt police departments will be exposed. Even if these departments don't necessarily tone down their use of violence, it's irrelevant. These things can be settled in court and that's what lawsuits are for. The fact that Lutherf tried to pass off a crooked department caught on camera being crooked .... as something negative just made me realize how good of an idea this is.
    As I'm a realist and know that bad cops do exist, I'd love to see something that exposes these bad cops - not only because they deserve exposing, but given that I truly believe the overwhelming majority of cops are NOT bad, this will go a long way toward lessening the too broad "cops are bad" mentality that is permeating in this country. Expose them, address it, do something about them, and let's get back to sanity.
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    Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    While in the simplest of consideration, these camera's appear to be a reasonable idea, the laws of unintended consequences seem ripe for application here. Should this move forward, it will interesting to see how rules of evidence are interpreted by the courts, and how much the cost of maintaining the system and the evidence, will actually be.

    Count on the actual costs being tremendous. Weighed against potential litigation savings, it's hard to estimate where "X" crosses "Y".

    that is my question

    what is the law regarding the evidence seen and heard on these cameras

    has it been tested in any upper courts

    a guy yells at a cop that he didnt mean to kill the dude before he is mirandized.....is it usable in a court of law?

    does anyone know the legal ramifications?
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    Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    a guy yells at a cop that he didnt mean to kill the dude before he is mirandized.....is it usable in a court of law?
    Yes. This is not a point of contention. You don't need to mirandize someone for something they say to be used as evidence.

    A officer can use things someone says to build probable cause to arrest them. Miranda is after they've already been arrested, so the evidence collection has already begun.

    In your example, the suspect would be well on their way to conviction.

    Miranda just informs you of your rights AFTER you've been arrested.

    Whether it is caught on camera or not shouldn't impact that.

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    Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Come again?
    Both making a ton of sense, on both sides...

    Those cops apt to be dicks or excessive in force are likely to hold back some if they're on camera at all times.

    Similarly...

    Those citizens apt to be confrontational or prone to excessively complaining are likel yto hold back if they're on camera at all times.

    Both of those factors could play into the reduction in complains and use of force. The one other factor I can think of going into the Use of Force numbers that does give me some pause is the notion of officers possibly hesitating in their use of force more so than before...not because it's a wrongful point of using it, but because of second guessing and worry about what could happen. I know it's not a popular notion on these forums, but I do generally give more benefit of the doubt to officers because of the realities of a job where you're purposefully putting yourself in situations that are dangerous due to the actions of another person and as such I give them more leeway in using their best judgement as to when they need ot defend themselves.

    However, despite that issue, I'd still be open to something like this so long as there's benefits that are a two way street...such as described in the OP regarding the use of those cameras as part of criminal investigations.

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    Re: Obama Wants To Help Buy 50,000 Body Cameras For The Nation's 630,000 Police Offic

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The main argument against these cameras is that... well... corrupt police departments will be exposed. Even if these departments don't necessarily tone down their use of violence, it's irrelevant. These things can be settled in court and that's what lawsuits are for. The fact that Lutherf tried to pass off a crooked department caught on camera being crooked .... as something negative just made me realize how good of an idea this is.
    What "corrupt departments"?!

    It's starting to sound like the primary reason for these cameras is to keep cops in check! I've got to ask, how much of this push is really to ferret out crime and how much is pure voyeurism?

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