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Thread: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertie76 View Post
    1.)A hate crime is a thought crime there is no denying that and that is not debatable.
    2.) Murder is the plotting and execution of killing with intent to kill, manslaughter is killing without plot, self defense is the defense of your self in a violent altercation.
    3.) Hate crime is because you have a bias towards that group which is a thought crime.
    1.) sorry thats just your opinion and nothing else, if you disagree prove otherwise, simply post facts that support your claim
    2.) actually wrong again plotting isnt always needed for murder there are different levels like M2. AGain you arent from the US are you because it doesnt seem you understand laws and rights at all.
    3.) also wrong its not always a group and no that isnt what makes a thought crime.
    by YOUR weak and unsupportable defintion murder can be done on "thoughts" so can rape, robbery etc etc

    some how this is magically different though in your eyes
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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertie76 View Post
    You're right I don't understand how charging someone because they have a personal bias towards someone based on a prejudice equates to selling guns to people with the intent to cause a crime in the future
    The point is that motivation, intent and "reason for doing it" matter with many types of crime, so that is not a unique feature of hate crimes. Unless you think motivation, intent and "reason for doing it" should never be considered when charging any crime, it is not a valid argument against hate crimes.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 12-02-14 at 04:40 PM.

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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) sorry thats just your opinion and nothing else, if you disagree prove otherwise, simply post facts that support your claim
    2.) actually wrong again plotting isnt always needed for murder there are different levels like M2. AGain you arent from the US are you because it doesnt seem you understand laws and rights at all.
    3.) also wrong its not always a group and no that isnt what makes a thought crime.
    by YOUR weak and unsupportable defintion murder can be done on "thoughts" so can rape, robbery etc etc

    some how this is magically different though in your eyes
    M2 is still a forethought of killing maybe not with a plan. Manslaughter is no a forethought this isn't up for discussion

    Hate crime is crime you commit because you have a personal bias towards a specific group of the belonging individual still not debatable

    You can be charged with murder and have an additional charge because you have a prior prejudice towards that individual based on things like race sexual orientation etc. etc. that additional charge is based on the thought it's not the " similarity between m1 and m2" because these sub categories suggest a difference in how inherently heinous the crime is. You get into a fight with someone and stab them in the neck with the intention to kill is less heinous then plotting a murder for a few weeks. These levels dictate how heinous a crime is based on the amount of afore though given. Not because you had a personal bias towards that person which if it were the case would be a crime against your thoughts. But guess what? They're the same crime your still killing the person. When you are charged with a hate crime it's an additional crime because of your bias towards that person, which is why it's a thought crime

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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertie76 View Post
    1.)M2 is still a forethought of killing maybe not with a plan. Manslaughter is no a forethought this isn't up for discussion
    2.)Hate crime is crime you commit because you have a personal bias towards a specific group of the belonging individual still not debatable
    3.)You can be charged with murder and have an additional charge because you have a prior prejudice towards that individual based on things like race sexual orientation etc. etc. that additional charge is based on the thought it's not the " similarity between m1 and m2" because these sub categories suggest a difference in how inherently heinous the crime is. You get into a fight with someone and stab them in the neck with the intention to kill is less heinous then plotting a murder for a few weeks. These levels dictate how heinous a crime is based on the amount of afore though given. Not because you had a personal bias towards that person which if it were the case would be a crime against your thoughts. But guess what? They're the same crime your still killing the person.
    4.) When you are charged with a hate crime it's an additional crime because of your bias towards that person, which is why it's a thought crime
    1.) there doesnt have to be plotting in M@ your statement was wrong that hasn't changed
    2.) sorry it doesnt have to be a group and its still not thought crime. Like i said if you disagree please provide ONE fact that supports you . . one
    3.) false i can be charged with aggravated assault then evidence comes forward and then im charged with murder in addition . . . so yes its the same
    4.) you havent provide anythign that makes it a thought crime or different from many other crimes lol repeating yourself with no logical, legal or factual backing wont get it done

    in you next post please tell us what a though crime is and then factually prove it. I bet you dodge this request again
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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    The point is that motivation, intent and "reason for doing it" matter with many types of crime, so that is not a unique feature of hate crimes. Unless you think motivation, intent and "reason for doing it" should never be considered when charging any crime, it is not a valid argument against hate crimes.
    It's the matter of penalization. The intent of the crime shows the severity of the actions , but the intent isn't the crime itself besides cases of tyranny which is stipulated as a special cause in the constitution. M1 and m2 are different levels of severity for the same crime based on things like limited a forethought or not causing to increase the severity they are however the charging of the same crime. You can't be charged with murder two with murder one additional charges unless they are in separate cases, but you can be charged with murder two with additional hate crime charges because he charge of the hate crime is based on your thoughts in regards to why you are committing different charges different crimes. Hate crimes are based solely on your thoughts nothing else.

    Such as your weapons analogy you sell illegal weapons your charged with the selling of illegal weapons but your not charged with selling illegal weapons and an additional charge of with the intent to murder. Unless you can prove that the person knew the weapons were to be used to murder then it would fall under conspiracy to commit murder or aiding before the fact. Which is completely different then aiding before the fact because you didn't like the victims race.

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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) there doesnt have to be plotting in M@ your statement was wrong that hasn't changed
    2.) sorry it doesnt have to be a group and its still not thought crime. Like i said if you disagree please provide ONE fact that supports you . . one
    3.) false i can be charged with aggravated assault then evidence comes forward and then im charged with murder in addition . . . so yes its the same
    4.) you havent provide anythign that makes it a thought crime or different from many other crimes lol repeating yourself with no logical, legal or factual backing wont get it done

    in you next post please tell us what a though crime is and then factually prove it. I bet you dodge this request again
    "an instance of unorthodox or controversial thinking, considered as a criminal offence or as socially unacceptable" thought crime

    1.
    the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.
    "the brutal murder of a German holidaymaker"
    synonyms: killing, homicide, assassination, liquidation, extermination, execution, slaughter, butchery, massacre; More - murder

    Evidence comes forward such as the person dies and you can prove you had the intention and premeditation to kill the person in cases of aggravated assault... Different crimes doesn't disprove anything I've stated

    I said based on a bias towards a group are you seriously trying to dispute this fact

    Ummm ok then?

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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertie76 View Post
    M2 is still a forethought of killing maybe not with a plan. Manslaughter is no a forethought this isn't up for discussion

    Hate crime is crime you commit because you have a personal bias towards a specific group of the belonging individual still not debatable

    You can be charged with murder and have an additional charge because you have a prior prejudice towards that individual based on things like race sexual orientation etc. etc. that additional charge is based on the thought it's not the " similarity between m1 and m2" because these sub categories suggest a difference in how inherently heinous the crime is. You get into a fight with someone and stab them in the neck with the intention to kill is less heinous then plotting a murder for a few weeks. These levels dictate how heinous a crime is based on the amount of afore though given. Not because you had a personal bias towards that person which if it were the case would be a crime against your thoughts. But guess what? They're the same crime your still killing the person. When you are charged with a hate crime it's an additional crime because of your bias towards that person, which is why it's a thought crime
    It is a hate crime when it is a bias against a whole group of people, not just one person. The intended message is that those people as a group don't belong in your community and/or should shut up and keep a low profile or else they will be targeted.

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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    When has that happened? A quick google search didn't turn up any examples.
    It has been attempted and done a few times. The public wants someones head, so after the man is found not guilty the federal government starts to see if they can nail him for a hate crime.

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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    It is a hate crime when it is a bias against a whole group of people, not just one person. The intended message is that those people as a group don't belong in your community and/or should shut up and keep a low profile or else they will be targeted.
    Not always. You might have a prejudice against Asian men and your sister dates one and you assault him because you don't want an Asian dating your sister not necessarily as a message to the whole Asian race not belonging in your community. Just that you think your family should only date your own specific race. This would be considered a hate crime as well as a crime of assault. This is how it's a thought crime, now I'm not suggesting it's 1984 status of crimes against thoughts but the reason people are against it isn't because they defend racism it's because these stipulations set precedents for future laws to be passed.

    Of you hated Asians and the same scenario and you were charged with assault and given a harder sentence on the basis of the nature of your crime, crime against him for being Asian being one of them that is perfectly acceptable. But the problem is that it's an additional charge.

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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertie76 View Post
    M2 is still a forethought of killing maybe not with a plan. Manslaughter is no a forethought this isn't up for discussion

    Hate crime is crime you commit because you have a personal bias towards a specific group of the belonging individual still not debatable

    You can be charged with murder and have an additional charge because you have a prior prejudice towards that individual based on things like race sexual orientation etc. etc. that additional charge is based on the thought it's not the " similarity between m1 and m2" because these sub categories suggest a difference in how inherently heinous the crime is. You get into a fight with someone and stab them in the neck with the intention to kill is less heinous then plotting a murder for a few weeks. These levels dictate how heinous a crime is based on the amount of afore though given. Not because you had a personal bias towards that person which if it were the case would be a crime against your thoughts. But guess what? They're the same crime your still killing the person. When you are charged with a hate crime it's an additional crime because of your bias towards that person, which is why it's a thought crime
    So... what you're saying is that... for murder 1 and murder 2.... it's the thought process that goes into each that counts?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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