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Thread: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

  1. #61
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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    You are mistaken. I mean that if there is solid proof that the possessor intended to sell the guns to terrorists or criminals, then they should be (and probably would be) charged and/or sentenced differently than if they only had the guns for their personal collection. Motivation, intent and "reason for doing it" matter.
    Well selling guns shouldn't even be regulated in e first place. It's not constitutional for the federal government to regulate the possession or sales of fire arms. However, if a person was purposely givi arms to an enemy of the country it would be considered tyranny not a thought crime so it's different

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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertie76 View Post
    1.)His suggestion is that because he law states it we should just accept it. Well the increased spending on the militarization and federalization of police is something we should accept as well by that precedent. Isn't any of this warned to us by our founding fathers as the begins stages of tyrannical governments? I've lived in Europe for a while now and a lot of people here view the United States as a tyrannical pplicement of the world but the only people hat don't see it as such are Americans isn't that crazy? And they wonder why we think though crimes shouldn't exist.
    false thats another failed strawman you made up. Do you have any real arguments or even statements not based on falsehoods? lol
    what thought crimes?
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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) you are free to have that opinion but motive, intent, reasoning and scale are common factors in law/crime
    That's great, but this isn't about scale for the first charge, but literally another charge based on the intent of the act.

    If what you said was true then you couldn't be found guilty of a hate crime while being found innocent of whatever act you were accused of.

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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    You are mistaken. I mean that if there is solid proof that the possessor intended to sell the guns to terrorists or criminals, then they should be (and probably would be) charged and/or sentenced differently than if they only had the guns for their personal collection. Motivation, intent and "reason for doing it" matter.
    yep they are factors based on common sense and how many laws work
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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So the intent of the law is that you disapprove of a criminals intent to commit another crime? Don't people disprove with the intent to commit most crimes?
    When a hate crime such as the one in the OP occurs, word gets out to the family that received it and the entire community that a particular group is being targeted for harassment, violence or vandalism. That creates an environment of fear for the targeted group that, if extreme enough, may motivate some people to hide their status or move out of that town, and that is the intent. It is a form of terrorism.

    If your particular church was bombed and no others, would you feel safe going back if the perpetrator was not caught? Would you feel safe being open about your membership in that church to the general public?

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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    That's great, but this isn't about scale for the first charge, but literally another charge based on the intent of the act.
    false as like other crimes scale is a factor here and why these laws were made and just like in other cases additional charges follow. Nothing new.

    assault charges and adding attempted murder if more evidence is found
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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertie76 View Post
    Well selling guns shouldn't even be regulated in e first place. It's not constitutional for the federal government to regulate the possession or sales of fire arms. However, if a person was purposely givi arms to an enemy of the country it would be considered tyranny not a thought crime so it's different
    Try carefully re-reading what I wrote because you don't understand my point.

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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    false thats another failed strawman you made up. Do you have any real arguments or even statements not based on falsehoods? lol
    what thought crimes?
    A hate crime is a thought crime there is no denying that and that is not debatable. Murder is the plotting and execution of killing with intent to kill, manslaughter is killing without plot, self defense is the defense of your self in a violent altercation. Hate crime is because you have a bias towards that group which is a thought crime.

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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Try carefully re-reading what I wrote because you don't understand my point.
    You're right I don't understand how charging someone because they have a personal bias towards someone based on a prejudice equates to selling guns to people with the intent to cause a crime in the future

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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    ....If what you said was true then you couldn't be found guilty of a hate crime while being found innocent of whatever act you were accused of.
    When has that happened? A quick google search didn't turn up any examples.

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