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Thread: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

  1. #41
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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertie76 View Post
    1.)Hate crime laws are federal Obama signs hate crimes bill into law - CNN.com regardless if the state takes the prosecution or not.
    2.)Ok I would like to know if you think that a white person attacking another white person because he has helped the n.a.a.c.p is a hate crime or not.
    1.) again thank you for proving that you dont understand the law or what is actually being said. States can still and do ADD to it and it still varies. This fact hasn't changed
    what arent you getting, why are these facts escaping you?
    2.) again what i think doesnt matter wow lol its bouat law and rights

    if he was soley attacked based on helping a org by fed standards that doesnt seem to fit since thats not the violence of intolerance and bigotry, intended to hurt
    and intimidate someone because of their race, ethnicity, national origin,religious, sexual orientation, or disability.

    but it might be in certain states or other jurisdictions

    EDIT**

    seems like when i go to the FBI website and not what you said earlier or the link earlier provided he could be charged based on this verbiage
    Congress has defined a hate crime as a “criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.” Hate itself is not a crime—and the FBI is mindful of protecting freedom of speech and other civil liberties.
    so it seems like he could at be charged by the feds definition
    Last edited by AGENT J; 12-02-14 at 02:01 PM.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) again thank you for proving that you dont understand the law or what is actually being said. States can still and do ADD to it and it still varies. This fact hasn't changed
    what arent you getting, why are these facts escaping you?
    2.) again what i think doesnt matter wow lol its bouat law and rights

    if he was soley attacked based on helping a org by fed standards that doesnt seem to fit since thats not the violence of intolerance and bigotry, intended to hurt
    and intimidate someone because of their race, ethnicity, national origin,religious, sexual orientation, or disability.

    but it might be in certain states or other jusridicitions
    I'm asking what you think not the federal definition of a hate crime do you think if I get attacked because I have helped raise funds for the a.d.l if that should be a hate crime or not

  3. #43
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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertie76 View Post
    I'm asking what you think not the federal definition of a hate crime do you think if I get attacked because I have helped raise funds for the a.d.l if that should be a hate crime or not
    now you are changing it to the ADL and not the NAACP?
    regardless i answered lol
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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertie76 View Post
    ... I do not agree with racism in the slightest but I also don't think we should legally punish people for motivation. ..
    You think that political assassins and murderers for hire should face the same charge and sentence as someone who kills someone in a bar fight? Should someone with an illegal cache of guns be charged/sentenced the same without considering their intent to sell them to terrorists rather than just owning them for their personal collection?

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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    You think that political assassins and murderers for hire should face the same charge and sentence as someone who kills someone in a bar fight? Should someone with an illegal cache of guns be charged/sentenced the same without considering their intent to sell them to terrorists rather than just owning them for their personal collection?
    A bar fight death would be manslaughter and an assassin is charged win murder. I think motivation shows the inherent heinous of a crime. If you plot for a Month to kill someone is more heinous then an altercation evolving in death. But the forced additional charge based on the reason for doing it is a charging someone with a thought crime. If someone is selling illegal guns is different then someone owning legal guns your questions are two completely different scenarios and additional do not explain why charging someone based on thought should be legal.

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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertie76 View Post
    A bar fight death would be manslaughter and an assassin is charged win murder. I think motivation shows the inherent heinous of a crime. If you plot for a Month to kill someone is more heinous then an altercation evolving in death. But the forced additional charge based on the reason for doing it is a charging someone with a thought crime. If someone is selling illegal guns is different then someone owning legal guns your questions are two completely different scenarios and additional do not explain why charging someone based on thought should be legal.
    Motivation, intent and "reason for doing it" are essentially the same thing, so your rationalization does not make sense. Intent is rightfully considered in many criminal charges and in sentencing. The intent of a hate crime is to send a message to (terrorize) a group of people such as a particular race or religion. Hate crimes harm more people than non-hate crimes and that is the intent. In my example involving gun possession I said that there was an intent to sell the guns, not that they were caught selling the guns.

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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Motivation, intent and "reason for doing it" are essentially the same thing, so your rationalization does not make sense. Intent is rightfully considered in many criminal charges and in sentencing. The intent of a hate crime is to send a message to (terrorize) a group of people such as a particular race or religion. Hate crimes harm more people than non-hate crimes and that is the intent. In my example involving gun possession I said that there was an intent to sell the guns, not that they were caught selling the guns.
    yep that reality isnt hard to understand
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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    yep that reality isnt hard to understand
    I don't fully know why it is, but many don't seem to get it. One reason is that the right wing media has created the impression that there are, or imminently will be, hate speech laws. Very few people in he USA want hate speech laws, there is no reason to think that they could get passed legislatively and they would almost certainly be ruled unconstitutional by the courts.

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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    in before "why are hate crime laws legal"
    ////
    Actually, the argument is why do hate crimes exist.

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    Re: Utah man gets maximum sentence in hate crime case

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Motivation, intent and "reason for doing it" are essentially the same thing, so your rationalization does not make sense. Intent is rightfully considered in many criminal charges and in sentencing. The intent of a hate crime is to send a message to (terrorize) a group of people such as a particular race or religion. Hate crimes harm more people than non-hate crimes and that is the intent. In my example involving gun possession I said that there was an intent to sell the guns, not that they were caught selling the guns.
    Yes the courts can sentence someone more on a basis of intent, but if a court fails to charge someone with a hate crime the federal courts have the authority to charge someone with the hate crime.

    A hate crime isn't only added on time for the intent of the crime it's an actual crime itself based solely on thought. I actually don't agree with a lot of the laws we have today. I personally feel like laws are becoming more and more and our prison population is growing and growing because of the additional laws not because of the additional thuggish behavior of individuals. If I'm not mistaken, Your suggesting that since someone has a huge quantity of guns that it automatically supports the suggestion that he's selling guns.

    I don't even think the government has a right to regulate the market in terms of gun ownership, however if a person gets caught aiding a threat to our national sovereignty or our society's own freedoms then that would be tyranny.

    Now by all means people should be charged and the punishment should reflect the nature of the crime, but hate crime legislation is a law based solely on political thought and personal bias. It's a crime against thought plain and simple no matter how pure the intentions of the legislation are

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