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President Obama to order more training, oversight for military gear to cops.....

Glen Contrarian said:
I think that ALL police should be required to wear body cameras - having such might have prevented what's happened in Ferguson. That, and at least he's looking for oversight of that military gear...because before, there wasn't any oversight at all.
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I don't believe the federal has the grant of power to compel such a thing. The police are not a federal agency, they are state and local. As to that last, I know for a fact it is not true.
 
I've got a problem with this.

I understand that there could be some benefits but their admissibility as evidence needs to be limited to felonies and dangerous crimes. If there are no limits then we're going to see these things get used to "call balls and strikes" and the justice system will NEVER be able to handle the fallout.
 
MMC said:
They might want to look in some warehouses owned by DHS.....huh?

I don't have any problem with the cameras myself.....but I would think those from whatever states, cities, and suburbs should be making that call for their own communities. I don't think it requires an EO.
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I have to disagree. You cannot fight terrorism on a national level without having national control of nationally issued military grade weapons. These weapons were originally issued for war by the national government. If they are going to deploy them against their own civilians that's a call the nation seems to support. But in doing so the national government has an obligation for the safety of the nation to first see that these weapons DO NOT fall into the wrong hands, second to ensure they are not used inappropriately and third to ensure there is no over-mission, that the weapons are in fact needed in the war on terror. They are not and should not be for crowd control.

Knowing the longest undefended boarder in the world I shake when I imagine some whack jobs getting their hands on some serious stuff and head for our border. We have enough illegal weapons entering the country from the US as it is.
 
Mr. Invisible said:
I really don't know about that as there have been reports of cops turning off their body cams (Officer involved in Monday shooting had body cam turned off - FOX 8 WVUE New Orleans News, Weather, Sports) in addition to this, there have also been beatings caught on camera and nothing occurred. IIRC, Kelly Thomas' beating was filmed and the two cops who did it are walking around free.
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It's a step in the right direction. It's an actual tangible measure to improve policing and increase accountability. It may not be a silver bullet but it's a relatively inexpensive step in the right direction
 
CanadaJohn said:
Good afternoon MMC

So much shopping to do with taxpayers' dollars and only two more years for the spree. It'll be like Christmas in the White House for the next 25 months.

And of course, this initiative does nothing to address any of the real problems facing the country.
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It will help prevent the black vote from dropping below 90% demorat. Obama is all about politics; fixing real problems requires real solutions. Maybe he can issue an OE to make it a civil rights violation to make any arrest off camera. ;)
 
tres borrachos said:
What police departments where? The article doesn't say.

There are something like 900,000 law enforcement officers in the USA.
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Obama knows that but has only chump change to give away via EO. This is not about reality this is about perception; politics is all about perception.
 
MMC said:
Heya CJ. :2wave: Well he does get off another EO.....and of course dole out money he doesn't have.
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Obama has lots of money - he only "lacks resources" for things that he would rather not do. ;)
 
clownboy said:
I don't believe the federal has the grant of power to compel such a thing. The police are not a federal agency, they are state and local. As to that last, I know for a fact it is not true.
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The federal government can't tell state and local police how to do their jobs...but the feds CAN simply tell them that federal funding for project X is dependent upon whether the police wear body cameras.

I mean, are you against requiring the police to wear body cameras?
 
iliveonramen said:
It's a step in the right direction. It's an actual tangible measure to improve policing and increase accountability. It may not be a silver bullet but it's a relatively inexpensive step in the right direction
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I'm fine with police officers wearing body cams, but it is neither inexpensive nor an easy system to manage correctly AND it is something that cannot be mandated federally.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
I think that ALL police should be required to wear body cameras - having such might have prevented what's happened in Ferguson. That, and at least he's looking for oversight of that military gear...because before, there wasn't any oversight at all.
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And who should be making the decisions to require cameras and to fund the requirement for these state and local LEO departments.

There are three choices:

State and local governments
Congress, whose job it is to fund federal expenditures
The President, through the use of EO's
 
Fearandloathing said:
I have to disagree. You cannot fight terrorism on a national level without having national control of nationally issued military grade weapons. These weapons were originally issued for war by the national government. If they are going to deploy them against their own civilians that's a call the nation seems to support. But in doing so the national government has an obligation for the safety of the nation to first see that these weapons DO NOT fall into the wrong hands, second to ensure they are not used inappropriately and third to ensure there is no over-mission, that the weapons are in fact needed in the war on terror. They are not and should not be for crowd control.

Knowing the longest undefended boarder in the world I shake when I imagine some whack jobs getting their hands on some serious stuff and head for our border. We have enough illegal weapons entering the country from the US as it is.
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Generally speaking I think you're right but we also need to consider that the police are the first response force for terror incidents so specialized equipment and training for such events is absolutely necessary. The problem we're having right now isn't that the cops have such equipment. It's that the equipment and tactics are being used in situations where they probably aren't necessary.
 
Fearandloathing said:
I have to disagree. You cannot fight terrorism on a national level without having national control of nationally issued military grade weapons. These weapons were originally issued for war by the national government. If they are going to deploy them against their own civilians that's a call the nation seems to support. But in doing so the national government has an obligation for the safety of the nation to first see that these weapons DO NOT fall into the wrong hands, second to ensure they are not used inappropriately and third to ensure there is no over-mission, that the weapons are in fact needed in the war on terror. They are not and should not be for crowd control.

Knowing the longest undefended boarder in the world I shake when I imagine some whack jobs getting their hands on some serious stuff and head for our border. We have enough illegal weapons entering the country from the US as it is.
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Well, I don't mind the Pentagon and Military keeping track rather than DHS......there are 15 Intel Agencies and the FBI. IMO DHS is a waste of space, money and people that could have been used elsewhere in the field.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
In which case the cop's word should be enough, just like it is today. But the body camera would cut way down on police misconduct.
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It may not be a legitimate concern, I don't know - but I do worry that if police are going to be under surveillance 24/7 while on duty are some officers going to be reluctant to get into the dirty areas of the job that we all know they get into - breaking up a couple of drunks fighting, as an example, where they are then criticized roundly for being too rough - or avoid getting involved in trying to quell protestors, such as in Ferguson.

I don't believe anyone, in any job, should be placed under 24/7 surveillance so that their every move can be monitored and criticized by someone else who hasn't a clue about what the job entails on a minute by minute basis.
 
clownboy said:
I'm fine with police officers wearing body cams, but it is neither inexpensive nor an easy system to manage correctly AND it is something that cannot be mandated federally.
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Do you think it's worth the cost? I can probably find a long list of gear purchased by police forces after 9/11 that is pretty useless. This actually helps police officers improve credibility and improves accountability. It improves the situation both ways...do you think any minority neighborhood trusts a police officer in a police shooting? This gives the police officer testimony proof. Same with bad cops, now there is a sense of accountability for their actions.

Like I said, it's not a silver bullet but it's much better than mine resistant uparmored carriers in meeting the mission of local police forces.
 
MMC said:
Coming soon to a Police Dept near you. Police Officers to wear Body Cameras. BO is doling out 75 mil for the new equipment. What say ye?


President Barack Obama is expected to sign an executive order to encourage more oversight of federal programs that dole out military gear to local police departments, senior administration officials said Monday. The executive order will direct agencies that distribute military-style equipment to local police to require training for cops that receive the gear. The president will also require officials to create a central database to track the supplies, as a significant number of weapons and vehicles previously allocated have gone missing.

Obama does plan to dole out one new piece of equipment to police departments that will likely please civil liberterians: The White House will allocate $75 million dollars over three years to provide police departments with up to 50,000 body-worn cameras for their officers.....snip~

President Obama to order more training, oversight for military gear to cops
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This is scary. Should have seen it coming. The federal government getting involved with local law enforcement.

What's next, uniformed federal police patrolling the streets and writing tickets for j-walking and littering ?
 
Glen Contrarian said:
In which case the cop's word should be enough, just like it is today. But the body camera would cut way down on police misconduct.
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Maybe, but maybe not. It may just cut down on police conduct in general which is not necessarily a good thing. When in doubt whether the camera caught the initial criminal act then why make any effort to pursue that any further? Why take a chance on getting into trouble, especially in "bad" neighborhoods?
 
iliveonramen said:
Do you think it's worth the cost? I can probably find a long list of gear purchased by police forces after 9/11 that is pretty useless. This actually helps police officers improve credibility and improves accountability. It improves the situation both ways...do you think any minority neighborhood trusts a police officer in a police shooting? This gives the police officer testimony proof. Same with bad cops, now there is a sense of accountability for their actions.

Like I said, it's not a silver bullet but it's much better than mine resistant uparmored carriers in meeting the mission of local police forces.
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There are arguments for and against, and I don't know if it's worth the cost. But it is expensive and the locals have very limited budgets and I wouldn't vote to pay for them in my community. It's not something I'm against, but for the urban communities where you have a lot of anti-police sentiment, pretty sure they have to bite the bullet and spend the money. Unfortunately, it will make the community even poorer.
 
APACHERAT said:
This is scary. Should have seen it coming. The federal government getting involved with local law enforcement.

What's next, uniformed federal police patrolling the streets and writing tickets for j-walking and littering ?
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Nah Apache.....we evolve to Patrolling Judges. :2razz:

 
clownboy said:
There are arguments for and against, and I don't know if it's worth the cost. But it is expensive and the locals have very limited budgets and I wouldn't vote to pay for them in my community. It's not something I'm against, but for the urban communities where you have a lot of anti-police sentiment, pretty sure they have to bite the bullet and spend the money. Unfortunately, it will make the community even poorer.
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Wouldn't the next step be sending out Police Surveillance Drones with their Cruisers?
Cameras up by their Police Stations too?
 
MMC said:
Coming soon to a Police Dept near you. Police Officers to wear Body Cameras. BO is doling out 75 mil for the new equipment. What say ye?


President Barack Obama is expected to sign an executive order to encourage more oversight of federal programs that dole out military gear to local police departments, senior administration officials said Monday. The executive order will direct agencies that distribute military-style equipment to local police to require training for cops that receive the gear. The president will also require officials to create a central database to track the supplies, as a significant number of weapons and vehicles previously allocated have gone missing.

Obama does plan to dole out one new piece of equipment to police departments that will likely please civil liberterians: The White House will allocate $75 million dollars over three years to provide police departments with up to 50,000 body-worn cameras for their officers.....snip~

President Obama to order more training, oversight for military gear to cops
Click to expand...


Small price to pay.I support cameras on cops. It protects the cops from bogus accusations and protects citizens from the occasional bad apple. I do not think cops should be issued military equipment or at least they should not be able to what your average law abiding citizen can not get.
 
jamesrage said:
Small price to pay.I support cameras on cops. It protects the cops from bogus accusations and protects citizens from the occasional bad apple. I do not think cops should be issued military equipment or at least they should not be able to what your average law abiding citizen can not get.
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Heya JR. :2wave: I don't think it should be a Fed issue or require some EO for the cameras. But then I can also see CB's point with communities that are strapped for cash.

Which I also brought up about the Police dept eventually being able to send out drones with their officers in an area.



But it's unclear if the president's actions will have any effect on the amount of military-style gear the federal government doles out to local cops......snip~
 
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