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The St. Louis Rams’ ‘Hands Up, Don’t Shoot’ Protest [W:256]

Anyone doing the "hands up, don't shoot" meme at this point is a conspiracy theory nutjob.

I will say though, that as I understand it, the grand jury leaned on the side that he did have his hand up from what I understood. However, they also believe he charging at him as well.

Be kind of weird to run at someone while saying "Don't Shoot", just after you got done attacking them.
 
I didn't say they were right. I said they have a right to their opinion, and they have the right to express it. They did. There you go. They are allowed to have opinions that differ from yours.
And I reiterate...its NOT an 'opinion'. They are embracing a lie. And you embrace them embracing a lie.
 
Free speech includes lies. If it didn't every politician in this country would be behind bars, in jail. As for Brown, I don't know what happened. There has been so many versions told one has lost track of how many. Every eye witnesses to the event tells several different stories. So basically one believes in the story one wants to believe in.

There is no way anyone knows exactly what went down. There are way too many discrepancies. Am I going to get upset by the actions of 5 St. Louis players, no I am not. I have bigger fish to fry.

The physical evidence and witness testimony has proven that Brown wasn't surrendering. Saying so is a lie and I won't make excuses for, nor passively condone these dudes for keeping the lie alive. That lie is responsible for some very destructive riots and, in the futire, will cost lives.
 
Free speech includes lies. If it didn't every politician in this country would be behind bars, in jail. As for Brown, I don't know what happened. There has been so many versions told one has lost track of how many. Every eye witnesses to the event tells several different stories. So basically one believes in the story one wants to believe in.

There is no way anyone knows exactly what went down. There are way too many discrepancies. Am I going to get upset by the actions of 5 St. Louis players, no I am not. I have bigger fish to fry.

That is the saddest and laziest answer I've ever heard on this forum. No one is saying we should throw people in jail for lying (although, there were quite a few who perjured themselves in front of the grand jury who could certainly go to jail). The question is if it is right, and that it's clearly not. In fact, many of those people with "different stories" we know now from the scientific evidence to be liars. And ultimately, you have to rely on the scientific evidence for a better telling of what the story is. And what was really smart about the prosecutor was to not release that, so he could separate those who were obviously not being truthful, to those who were trying to recall to the best of their abilities.
 
And I reiterate...its NOT an 'opinion'. They are embracing a lie. And you embrace them embracing a lie.

One thing I will say, is that it's our job, and should be the media's job, to point out that what they were saying wasn't truthful, but I don't think the NFL should of fined them. In fact, those players probably don't realize they are perpetuating a lie.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Knock off the personal attacks, flaming and baiting or else.
 
If your opinion has nothing to do with anything, why do we all have to listen to it?



And now the CPC race card. Good job.

You don't have to listen to it at all.

If you don't want to read it, move on by.

Ihope you got my point anyway even with the smart ass comment.
 
One thing I will say, is that it's our job, and should be the media's job, to point out that what they were saying wasn't truthful, but I don't think the NFL should of fined them. In fact, those players probably don't realize they are perpetuating a lie.
I agree. They have the right to be and act stupidly.

This week, the WH is meeting with Sharpton and several others and they are doing the exact same thing. OK...so the hands up dont shoot thing was a lie. So the evidence and witness testimony proves it wasnt an execution or police brutality. So what...who cares....we have to keep spreading the lie and formulate a strategy to address the non-existent police brutality that didnt occur. Sharpton himself was out saying OK, Mr Prosecutor, you may have one the battle but you havent won the war!. Wait...WTF? The PROSECUTOR won some battle we didnt know he was in? The GRAND JURY decided based on witness testimony supported by 3 separate autopsy reports including ones done by Obamas Justice system and the Brown families independently hired coroner. So...how is this about the prosecutor winning?

Kids in New York are still protesting about the 'injustice' in Ferguson. What injustice exactly occurred? (I mean...other than people having their businesses and homes looted and burned over a lie).
 
I agree. They have the right to be and act stupidly.

This week, the WH is meeting with Sharpton and several others and they are doing the exact same thing. OK...so the hands up dont shoot thing was a lie. So the evidence and witness testimony proves it wasnt an execution or police brutality. So what...who cares....we have to keep spreading the lie and formulate a strategy to address the non-existent police brutality that didnt occur. Sharpton himself was out saying OK, Mr Prosecutor, you may have one the battle but you havent won the war!. Wait...WTF? The PROSECUTOR won some battle we didnt know he was in? The GRAND JURY decided based on witness testimony supported by 3 separate autopsy reports including ones done by Obamas Justice system and the Brown families independently hired coroner. So...how is this about the prosecutor winning?

Kids in New York are still protesting about the 'injustice' in Ferguson. What injustice exactly occurred? (I mean...other than people having their businesses and homes looted and burned over a lie).

And you know, if the rate of innocent black kids being shot down in the streets by racists black cops was really as high as they bloviate about, then you think they could of picked a better martyr than robber and cop beater.
 
That is fine.

However as a fan of the NFL I have the right to voice an opinion that is was inappropriate. Free speech you know:mrgreen:

You can voice anything you want, but you have no position to inflict punishment.
 
And you know, if the rate of innocent black kids being shot down in the streets by racists black cops was really as high as they bloviate about, then you think they could of picked a better martyr than robber and cop beater.
You have to seize on those incidents when you get the chance. Mind you...they wont say dammit about the black kids gunned down by black kids. Cuz...
 
The physical evidence and witness testimony has proven that Brown wasn't surrendering. Saying so is a lie and I won't make excuses for, nor passively condone these dudes for keeping the lie alive. That lie is responsible for some very destructive riots and, in the futire, will cost lives.

Maybe all this stuff has become too common place or I have just become harden to it. It just doesn't bother me.
 
That is the saddest and laziest answer I've ever heard on this forum. No one is saying we should throw people in jail for lying (although, there were quite a few who perjured themselves in front of the grand jury who could certainly go to jail). The question is if it is right, and that it's clearly not. In fact, many of those people with "different stories" we know now from the scientific evidence to be liars. And ultimately, you have to rely on the scientific evidence for a better telling of what the story is. And what was really smart about the prosecutor was to not release that, so he could separate those who were obviously not being truthful, to those who were trying to recall to the best of their abilities.

Perhaps, but what the St. Louis players did was no big thing in my book.
 
The libertarian position is thus: The players and officers are all free to use their positions to make political statements. The league and teams are free to sanction them for that speech, should they so choose. The state, however, is restrained from taking action against any citizen for political speech thanks to the First Amendment. Thus, if a white player makes a pro KKK statement in public, he's free to do so, but he'll probably lose his job and become a public villain. I'm cool with that.

The reason their status as "exceptional" matters is because they're difficult to replace, making sanctioning that speech much more painful for the employer.

I see the Rams receivers making their "hands up" gesture and the officers issuing a statement as both being ethical uses of speech, but that doesn't mean there's no risk.

I have never seen the "libertarian position" of "It's okay to perpetuate a lie". Never. Show me where libertarians support lies.

The officers issued a statement because the players lied. Their gesture implied - incorrectly - that the SLPD goes around shooting black men who have their hands up in surrender. The SLPD wasn't making a political statement - they were defending themselves against lies. You can't understand that.
 
I'm saying that people make political statements all the time.
I think you would agree there's a major difference between carrying a flag and what the players did, wouldn't you?

The difference here is that many conservatives disagree with the statement made by Rams players.
I think the problem they have is the fact the evidence has all but shown Brown wasn't shot in the back and his hands weren't up. The problem they have is that symbol has become associated with a protest which has devolved into rioting and looting and destruction. And I think they have a problem with the fact the police worked their ass off to make sure that Rams game was safe and able to be played, not just this week but every week, and the players making that symbol was completely disrespectful.

I mean, I can't speak for them but that's the problem I have with it. Like others have said, those players are more than welcome to head down to Ferguson and protest on their own time if they want. It's something completely different to engage in an obviously contentious situation on company time against those who help make it possible for them to play.

Which doesn't make them wrong for making it.
No, it just means they are perpetuating a lie against those who help make it possible for them to earn their big money.
 
You have to seize on those incidents when you get the chance. Mind you...they wont say dammit about the black kids gunned down by black kids. Cuz...

Cuz those other black kids aren't cops. Amazing how this simple difference eludes you.
 
Maybe all this stuff has become too common place or I have just become harden to it. It just doesn't bother me.

I wouldn't say it bothers me, but I'll still call it what it is.
 
Never said I did.

Of course, which is why your points never actually addressed anything in my posts that you quoted. So are.we done with this pointless aside?
 
Cuz those other black kids aren't cops. Amazing how this simple difference eludes you.
A handful die in confrontations with cops. Just as in Ferguson, most of those cases are caused not by the cop but by the aggressor. Mike Brown was the aggressor-the witnesses and evidence supports that as a fact. You have your panties twisted because Mike Brown was killed by a cop? Now...conversely...10,000 black people are killed by blacks around the country. A small handful...10,000....and the only time people 'care' iswhen it is by a cop. Hell...you dont even care if it is a righteous shoot...as long as you have something to cry about.

Did Mike Brown have his 'hands up'? Was he pleading 'dont shoot'? Did the cop execute him?
 
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