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The St. Louis Rams’ ‘Hands Up, Don’t Shoot’ Protest [W:256]

rocket88 said:
Depends on what the statement is and how it's made. Johnny Cash wore black as a political statement ("I wear it for the poor and beaten down..."). He had a TV show in which he wore black, and continued to make most if not all public appearances in black for the last 30 years of his life. If I chose to wear all black to work (which I have done), and it was within the dress code...why would that be a problem?
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nice dodge.
.

Lets add a bit of a slant, a news story is being done that day at your place of work.
Come into work and for five minutes hold up your hands and shout "hands up don't shoot" Is that appropriate?

Like I stated. NFL players can do anything they want (legally) on their own time. IMO, their actions were inappropriate.
 
rocket88 said:
Which is their statement, and they have the right to make it.

Every year on Jackie Robinson Day, every player in Major League Baseball wears the number 42. That's a statement. It may be different because it's sanctioned by MLB, but it is a statement.
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They don't have a right to make it on the NFL's time. And I doubt the NFL is pleased with this. Roger Goodell is apparently expected to police what they do in elevators in Atlantic City. He has a right to demand proper behavior on his time.
 
tres borrachos said:
They were on the NFL's time and representing the NFL. They aren't being paid to protest.

They can protest all they want. They need to do it on their own time.
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Ah - defending freedom I see. :roll::doh
 
rocket88 said:
It's a statement about the power of police and the heavy hand of government. It can be political without it being about Democrats and Republicans.
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It was an incorrect statement. The "heavy hand of government"? They're free to move to a country where the government isn't so heavy handed.
 
tres borrachos said:
The St. Louis Rams’ ‘Hands Up, Don’t Shoot’ Protest - The Daily Fix - WSJ

<snip>

Professional sports are rarely a province for civil unrest. Take it from a young Michael Jordan, upon being asked to donate to a political campaign, apocryphally responding with “Republicans buy sneakers, too.” But there’s certainly opportunity to players to speak out, and on Sunday, several players for the St. Louis Rams made their voices heard.

As they came out of the tunnel during introductions before their game against the Oakland Raiders, Tavon Austin, Jared Cook, Chris Givens, Stedman Bailey, and Kenny Britt raised their hands in reference to the “Hands Up, Don’t Shoot” protest—a sign that became ubiquitous during the recent protests in Ferguson, Mo., over the shooting death of black teenager Michael Brown by white police officer Darren Wilson. Following the subsequent investigation, a grand jury decided not to indict Wilson. Protesters across the country have voiced their displeasure with the decision—a number of them were stationed outside the Edward James Dome, where the Rams play. The gesture didn’t go unnoticed, even as the players, all of whom are black, tried to be diplomatic. Britt was quoted as saying, “Taking sides? We wanted to show that we were there for a cause that something positive comes out of it.”

As far as dialogue between opposing sides, much of which has exposed fractious fault lines within attitudes toward race and state, this passes for downright tranquil. And yet, the players were immediately criticized by the St. Louis Police Officers Association, which released a fiery statement criticizing the players and demanding an appropriate response—reprimand from the team, or the league


I don't blame the St. Louis PD. WTF? It was proven that Brown was not shot with his hands up in surrender contrary to what his little sidekick in the convenience store robbery claimed - and which people have clung on to as if it were true.

I'll bet these guys would call the St. Louis PD in a second if there big fancy houses were being robbed.

The PD's statement is here, and it is indeed "fiery"

SLPOA condemns Rams display

Protest is great. Support your cause. I'd love to see the Rams support some causes that are important to me and lots of others too, like animal abuse and elder abuse. But if they did do it where the protest could be seen, I would hope they would be honest about what happened and not feed into the rhetoric and propaganda as they did on Sunday.
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That was a political statement made by members of the NFL at a game. Those players should be heavily fined and take at least a two game suspension.
 
mike2810 said:
whatever they want on their own time.

Noted. you did not address the question I asked.
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Where do you get this idea that when they are working and performing their job function they suddenly give up "their own time". Everybody I am aware of does things on "company time" that are solely their own thing and not a job function. Why should this be any different.

In you opinion would it be proper for you or your coworkers to do something similar at your work on company time?
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I see nothing wrong with a rather minor and extremely brief expression of protest that does not interfere with the job one is paid to do.
 
tres borrachos said:
They were on the NFL's time and representing the NFL. They aren't being paid to protest.

They can protest all they want. They need to do it on their own time.
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I tend to agree with this. Would anyone let their employees protest at work without organization approval?
 
mike2810 said:
nice dodge.
.
Come into work and for five minutes hold up your hands and shout "hands up don't shoot" Is that appropriate?
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As I've learned the hard way, shouting anything at work is rarely appropriate. Remember this statement?

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Which became this:

ap8601260436_1.jpg
 
rocket88 said:
And as usual, we can't have any discussion about race without someone claiming that white people are oppressed....:roll:
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I never claimed white people are oppressed. I would argue that poor rural white do not have the same depenent welfare state as urban poor do.
 
ecofarm said:
As a general gesture, and not specific to Brown, it's a fair statement. I'm not sure it's the place for it, unless there was team approval.
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It isn't a fair statement, and it was not a general gesture. The evidence indicates that the gentle giant did not have his hands up in surrender. But when you got nothing and what you do have indicates you are wrong, you go with something.

Meantime a young man was murdered and set afire on riot night on his way home from work and within yards of the riot scene. Presumably because he did the right thing and talked to the police. Little media coverage, and no protest.

Perhaps the opportunity afforded these overpaid undereducated idiots could have been better spent calling for more action in this incident.
 
tres borrachos said:
Using your employer's time for your own purposes (which Rocket says are "political") isn't any rational person's definition of "freedom".
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One reason I love this site is to watch the constant hypocrisy of those who self identify as Right Libertarians pretending to love freedom and liberty and individualism and then going through all sorts of twists and turns to condemn people exercising their rights if it is not on the right side of the political continuum.
 
ecofarm said:
You're confusing racial bigotry and racism. You do believe there is more to racism than racial bigotry, right? Do you believe blacks oppress whites collectively?



Projecting absolutes is stupid. Racism existing in the justice system does not make it the sole factor in crime rates. Another factor, for example, is poverty.
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You avoided my point, question to answer your own.


I agree, poverty, and culture play a large role here.
 
I'd remind the NFL and their players that it is not the violent thugs burning down buildings that buy their advertiser's products. It's cops and the good people of St. Louis and other NFL towns that do." - St. Louis Police Officers Assn. business manager Jeff Roorda.


Cars, beer, soft drinks/snacks and cell phone providers are some the top advertisers on NFL games. No one but cops and "the good people" buy these products? What a doofus.

:2wave:
 
tres borrachos said:
It was an incorrect statement. The "heavy hand of government"? They're free to move to a country where the government isn't so heavy handed.
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Possibly. Maybe the Tea Party is free to move to a country where the government keeps their hands off of people's government run Medicare. Should we round up everybody who expresses an opinion that differs from the official line of the government and deport them?
 
haymarket said:
Of course it does. Simply compare the demographics of black males in society with the incarceration rate. There are only two possible explanations:
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What do you mean "it does"?

1- far too many black males are inherently deviates coming from an inferior race and culture which disproportionately manifests itself in low intelligence and violent criminal behavior placing them closer to predatory animals than humans, or
2- centuries of slavery and Jim Crow have wreaked untold damage upon African Americans as a collective group in the USA causing all manner of sociological malfunctions impacting them at a greater rate than other groups in our nation and despite some efforts, we still have a very long way to go to actual equality in all phases of our society.

I pick the second.
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I pick the second as well, and I also will add the glorification by pop culture of the so called "thug lifestyle", and the culture within the black community where an getting an education can get you branded as "acting white".

You also forget years of slavery breaking up families led to a culture that values less two parent couples and all the good having both figures in a childs life does.

Or even the liberal democrat decimating the black community by making sure it's dependent on thier handouts by playing into the dependent lifestyle with always promises of "more".
 
Real question:

Who right now is at work, and on this site making political statements?
 
haymarket said:
One reason I love this site is to watch the constant hypocrisy of those who self identify as Right Libertarians pretending to love freedom and liberty and individualism and then going through all sorts of twists and turns to condemn people exercising their rights if it is not on the right side of the political continuum.
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I have to disagree with you here: what if five or six charcters at Disney Land decided to walk through the park with their hands up? The NFL is politlcally neutral and they should go out of their way to protect that status. It opens up a very ugly can of worms of they don't.
 
haymarket said:
One reason I love this site is to watch the constant hypocrisy of those who self identify as Right Libertarians pretending to love freedom and liberty and individualism and then going through all sorts of twists and turns to condemn people exercising their rights if it is not on the right side of the political continuum.
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Right Libertarians (of which you know nothing) don't necessarily support a person's right to do something that is a political statement without his employer's permission. This particular Right Libertarian doesn't. I'm not even allowed to have a political bumper sticker on my car as per my employer's rules. My freedom isn't being compromised. I'm free to find a job that allows me to make public political statements on my employer's time. Isn't freedom grand?
 
haymarket said:
Ah - defending freedom I see. :roll::doh
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She only defends the freedom she personally agrees with. Typical right-winger.

These players did nothing wrong. I wish this coming Sunday every player in the league would follow suit.
 
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