NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record[W:199]

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

Threegoofs said:

Exactly. Anyone familiar with the grant system, and peer review, know its a tough process. Agreement is never a given, and usually you need to make a very solid case for both grants and to get through a challenging peer review process from the major journals. Minor journals can get stuff passed thru easier, and joke journals just require payment. Thats why you see all the deniers who cite research relying on the joke journals.

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Not true. As someone so invested in the theory, you know very well the amount of money available for research has not been this massive since the Manhattan Project.

Climate Change - Terra Viva Grants Directory

Extramural Research Competitions | US EPA

Research Program and Funding Opportunities


I could list a hundred current sites with lists of grants being offered from government as well as private sources.

You're either making up this narrative about difficulty and peer review, or purposefully trying to hide the truth.

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

Deuce said:

I love it when they try to bring science down to the level of religion, insulting all religious people in the process.

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Well, given they dont understand science, it seems like a religion to them.

Kind of like aboriginal tribes who joined cargo cults in WW2. They dont know any better.

But the additional twist seems to be fear... because Conservatives tend to react to things they dont understand with fear rather than curiosity. And they cant protect themselves from this scary scientific notion with guns or the military, so they have no choice but to deny it, so as not to be overwhelmed by their infantile fear.

This might seem a bit over the top, but its got more truth in it than most realize.

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

ocean515 said:

Not true. As someone so invested in the theory, you know very well the amount of money available for research has not been this massive since the Manhattan Project.

Climate Change - Terra Viva Grants Directory

Extramural Research Competitions | US EPA

Research Program and Funding Opportunities


I could list a hundred current sites with lists of grants being offered from government as well as private sources.

You're either making up this narrative about difficulty and peer review, or purposefully trying to hide the truth.

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This doesn't refute the notion that science grants are still competitive. Stop trying to do math with your gut.

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

ocean515 said:

Not true. As someone so invested in the theory, you know very well the amount of money available for research has not been this massive since the Manhattan Project.

Climate Change - Terra Viva Grants Directory

Extramural Research Competitions | US EPA

Research Program and Funding Opportunities


I could list a hundred current sites with lists of grants being offered from government as well as private sources.

You're either making up this narrative about difficulty and peer review, or purposefully trying to hide the truth.

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Yes. There are a lot of sites. And there is a lot of competition for grants. A whole lot. Anyone involved in scientific fields knows this as fact.

In terms of publication, the top journals (those career making ones) reject about 99% of papers that are submitted to them. Thats not an exaggeration at all. Its really tough to get an article in Nature, PNAS or Science. The ones that do are truly the top papers in science.

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

Threegoofs said:

Well, given they dont understand science, it seems like a religion to them.

Kind of like aboriginal tribes who joined cargo cults in WW2. They dont know any better.

But the additional twist seems to be fear... because Conservatives tend to react to things they dont understand with fear rather than curiosity. And they cant protect themselves from this scary scientific notion with guns or the military, so they have no choice but to deny it, so as not to be overwhelmed by their infantile fear.

This might seem a bit over the top, but its got more truth in it than most realize.

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Science isn't being applied. Politics and opportunity for free government money is being applied.

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

Deuce said:

This doesn't refute the notion that science grants are still competitive. Stop trying to do math with your gut.

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Hmmm. Did I ever mention they were not competitive? Stop inventing things that never happened.

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

Erod said:

Science isn't being applied. Politics and opportunity for free government money is being applied.

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Can't refute the evidence? Just handwave it all away!

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

ocean515 said:

Hmmm. Did I ever mention they were not competitive? Stop inventing things that never happened.

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Follow the conversation better next time, because that's what we were talking about.

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

Threegoofs said:

Yes. There are a lot of sites. And there is a lot of competition for grants. A whole lot. Anyone involved in scientific fields knows this as fact.

In terms of publication, the top journals (those career making ones) reject about 99% of papers that are submitted to them. Thats not an exaggeration at all. Its really tough to get an article in Nature, PNAS or Science. The ones that do are truly the top papers in science.

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I never suggested there wasn't competition for those dollars. With the amount of money available, how many "new" climate scientists do you think have suddenly appeared? As to publishing, you know equally as well that publishing is not the same as it used to be. Consider the avalanche of websites and other sources now being referenced by organizations at the forefront of the theory. The big guns, like the ones you mentioned are just the icing on the cake for those researchers who can gain access. After all, there is only so much space to print things.

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

Deuce said:

Follow the conversation better next time, because that's what we were talking about.

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Improve your reading comprehension because that is what I commented on.

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

ocean515 said:

I never suggested there wasn't competition for those dollars. With the amount of money available, how many "new" climate scientists do you think have suddenly appeared? As to publishing, you know equally as well that publishing is not the same as it used to be. Consider the avalanche of websites and other sources now being referenced by organizations at the forefront of the theory. The big guns, like the ones you mentioned are just the icing on the cake for those researchers who can gain access. After all, there is only so much space to print things.

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Right. And there is competition between scientific areas for funding.

Why does climate science get more funding these days? Because the data suggest it's a real problem!

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

Threegoofs said:

Right. And there is competition between scientific areas for funding.

Why does climate science get more funding these days? Because the data suggest it's a real problem!

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Yes, and there lies the rub. The more data, the more funding, the more funding the more scientists, the more scientist, the more data, and so it goes. And then there is the solution, which feeds the funding, and on, and on.

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

100 year old cold records were broken this year...and it's the hottest year on record? :lamo

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

As always after the evidence and science are made clear the only denier recourse left is conspiracy. It must all be a worldwide scam involving thousands of greedy hucksters spanning governments and industry, from NASA to the United Nations. It is not just an indictment of the scientific community and government, but of civilization itself.

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

One would think, if it truly is getting hotter, that some people would eventually notice it being hot experientially. I wore a sweater through most of the beginning summer months by necessity.

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

Ten years ago, NOAA predicted we would be plagued with massive numbers of hurricane landfalls. It's been over 3,000 days since the last hurricane landfall.

So, we're supposed to blindly trust, "the science"?

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

ocean515 said:

Yes, and there lies the rub. The more data, the more funding, the more funding the more scientists, the more scientist, the more data, and so it goes. And then there is the solution, which feeds the funding, and on, and on.

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Right. And every single discipline is doing this while competing for funding.the funding goes to the most important projects.

It's quite the merit based system....you know, the type that wingers who fawn over Capitalism seem to love?

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

Threegoofs said:

Right. And every single discipline is doing this while competing for funding.the funding goes to the most important projects.

It's quite the merit based system....you know, the type that wingers who fawn over Capitalism seem to love?

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And then, as if on cue, you devolve into the mud slinging. Just adding more proof to the mountain of evidence regarding the agenda, and it's supporters.

Well done. :bravo:

Have a good day. eace

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

I remember back in the 70's when all the climate scientists were all a twitter about the coming Ice Age. Here's a hint for you all: It never happened.

Now all the climate scientists are all a twitter about global warming. . . . . . .

Until the day that the climate change models actually predict a few things accurately, I'm not willing to put any money to making decisions based on them.

Either the model isn't accurately representing the climate theories, and that's why their results are wrong, or the models are accurately representing the climate theories, but the theories are wrong, or even worse, the data being fed into the models is all wrong.

Either way, where ever the error lies, the result is not something with which you can make impactful decisions. At least not yet. Make some accurate predictions with the models, then we can talk what decisions need to be made and how quickly. Until then, not so much.

So, no science denial, but rather acceptance of science as a process, one that's not yet run it's course WRT global climate change. So no climate warming denial either (read my post again, it says nothing about denying that it might happen). But instead, cautious, fact based decision making.

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

apdst said:

Ten years ago, NOAA predicted we would be plagued with massive numbers of hurricane landfalls.

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Where is this prediction?

It's been over 3,000 days since the last hurricane landfall.

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Sorry, wrong. Continental US:

• Isaac, landfall 8/2012.
• Irene in 2011
• Dolly, Gustav and Ike in 2008
• Sandy did not actually hit land, but was producing hurricane-force winds over land

TCFAQ E23) What is the complete list of continental U.S. landfalling

So, we're supposed to blindly trust, "the science"?

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You do understand that your claim here is highly irrational, yes?

If I go to the bank and a single bank teller treats me rudely, it is not rational to conclude that "all bank tellers in the US are rude." That's not supported by the evidence.

Your statement here seems to imply that unless NOAA is 100% accurate with one specific prediction, none of what they say can possibly be true (or mostly accurate).

As to "blind faith," you're welcome to dig into the actual material yourself. Unfortunately, if you don't have the proper training, you won't understand it. How much time do you want to dedicate to re-checking work that other scientists are already re-checking?

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

Visbek said:

Where is this prediction?



Sorry, wrong. Continental US:

• Isaac, landfall 8/2012.
• Irene in 2011
• Dolly, Gustav and Ike in 2008
• Sandy did not actually hit land, but was producing hurricane-force winds over land

TCFAQ E23) What is the complete list of continental U.S. landfalling



You do understand that your claim here is highly irrational, yes?

If I go to the bank and a single bank teller treats me rudely, it is not rational to conclude that "all bank tellers in the US are rude." That's not supported by the evidence.

Your statement here seems to imply that unless NOAA is 100% accurate with one specific prediction, none of what they say can possibly be true (or mostly accurate).

As to "blind faith," you're welcome to dig into the actual material yourself. Unfortunately, if you don't have the proper training, you won't understand it. How much time do you want to dedicate to re-checking work that other scientists are already re-checking?

Click to expand...

A Drought That Won't Make You Pout: +3,000 Days and Counting Since Last Major Hurricane Landfall - Blog - weathertrends360

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

eohrnberger said:

I remember back in the 70's when all the climate scientists were all a twitter about the coming Ice Age. Here's a hint for you all: It never happened.

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You're absolutely right for once.

It never happened.

There were a few stories in Newsweek, but it wasnt 'all the climate scientists' by any stretch.

In fact, climate science already knew about the CO2 effect long before the 70s. It even made TV!



Sixty years later, the theory has been pretty much proven, with temperatures well above those of the 50s.

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

Threegoofs said:

Note those graphs were not NOAA.

Oh, wait. I forgot. You dont know what you're talking about if it wasnt delivered on a plate from Newsmax. Nevermind.

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So you agree that the NOAA manipulated temperature data ?

Good, your growing up.

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

Threegoofs said:

You're absolutely right for once.

It never happened.

There were a few stories in Newsweek, but it wasnt 'all the climate scientists' by any stretch.

In fact, climate science already knew about the CO2 effect long before the 70s. It even made TV!



Sixty years later, the theory has been pretty much proven, with temperatures well above those of the 50s.

Click to expand...

A few stories in Newsweek?

Below is just a fraction of the articles that appeared in major newspapers and magazines of the era.

Follow the link:

Popular Technology.net: 1970s Global Cooling Alarmism

References:

1970 - Colder Winters Held Dawn of New Ice Age - Scientists See Ice Age In the Future (The Washington Post, January 11, 1970)
1970 - Is Mankind Manufacturing a New Ice Age for Itself? (L.A. Times, January 15, 1970)
1970 - New Ice Age May Descend On Man (Sumter Daily Item, January 26, 1970)
1970 - Pollution Prospect A Chilling One (The Argus-Press, January 26, 1970)
1970 - Pollution's 2-way 'Freeze' On Society (Middlesboro Daily News, January 28, 1970)
1970 - Cold Facts About Pollution (The Southeast Missourian, January 29, 1970)
1970 - Pollution Could Cause Ice Age, Agency Reports (St. Petersburg Times, March 4, 1970)
1970 - Scientist predicts a new ice age by 21st century (The Boston Globe, April 16, 1970)
1970 - Pollution Called Ice Age Threat (St. Petersburg Times, June 26, 1970)
1970 - Dirt Will Bring New Ice Age (The Sydney Morning Herald, October 19, 1970)
1971 - Ice Age Refugee Dies Underground (Montreal Gazette, Febuary 17, 1971)
1971 - Pollution Might Lead To Another Ice Age (The Schenectady Gazette, March 22, 1971)
1971 - Pollution May Bring Ice Age - Scientist Rites Risk (The Windsor Star, March 23, 1971)
1971 - U.S. Scientist Sees New Ice Age Coming (The Washington Post, July 9, 1971)
1971 - Ice Age Around the Corner (Chicago Tribune, July 10, 1971)
1971 - New Ice Age Coming - It's Already Getting Colder (L.A. Times, October 24, 1971)
1971 - Another Ice Age? Pollution Blocking Sunlight (The Day, November 1, 1971)
1971 - Air Pollution Could Bring An Ice Age (Harlan Daily Enterprise, November 4, 1971)
1972 - Air pollution may cause ice age (Free-Lance Star, February 3, 1972)
1972 - Scientist Says New ice Age Coming (The Ledger, February 13, 1972)
1972 - Ice Age Cometh For Dicey Times (The Sun, May 29, 1972)
1972 - Ice Age Coming (Deseret News, September 8, 1972)
1972 - There's a new Ice Age coming! (The Windsor Star, September 9, 1972)
1972 - Scientist predicts new ice age (Free-Lance Star, September 11, 1972)
1972 - British Expert on Climate Change Says New Ice Age Creeping Over Northern Hemisphere (Lewiston Evening Journal, September 11, 1972)
1972 - Climate Seen Cooling For Return Of Ice Age (The Portsmouth Times, ‎September 11, 1972‎)
1972 - New Ice Age Slipping Over North (The Press-Courier, September 11, 1972)
1972 - Ice Age Begins A New Assault In North (The Age, September 12, 1972)
1972 - Weather To Get Colder (Montreal Gazette, ‎September 12, 1972‎)
1972 - British climate expert predicts new Ice Age (The Christian Science Monitor, September 23, 1972)
1972 - Scientist Sees Chilling Signs of New Ice Age (L.A. Times, September 24, 1972)
1972 - Science: Another Ice Age? (Time Magazine, November 13, 1972)
1972 - Geologist at Case Traces Long Winters - Sees Ice Age in 20 Years (Youngstown Vindicator, December 13, 1972)
1972 - Ice Age On Its Way, Scientist Says (Toledo Blade, December 13, 1972)
1972 - Ice Age Predicted In About 200 Years (The Portsmouth Times, December 14, 1972)

Re: NOAA: 2014 is shaping up as hottest year on record

apdst said:

A Drought That Won't Make You Pout: +3,000 Days and Counting Since Last Major Hurricane Landfall - Blog - weathertrends360

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Uh huh... So again, where was the NOAA prediction?

You did read the part of the article which pointed out that the Caribbean has gotten slammed several times since 2005, right?

You do know that NOAA correctly predicted that this year would be at or below normal hurricane levels, right?

You do know that predicting the specific path of a hurricane is extreme difficult, yes? As in, even 24 hours before a hurricane gets close to the US coast, it can veer off?

And again, you do understand that even if NOAA was wrong about this specific thing, it is irrational to use that to reject every single finding and/or piece of data produced by NOAA over, say, a 10- or 20- or 40-year period, right...?