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Thread: Ferguson officer who shot Michael Brown resigns

  1. #121
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    Re: Ferguson officer who shot Michael Brown resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    /double like Di. Best post in this whole thread.

    I think Upsideguy and others in this thread need to read this.
    They will read this but they will also dismiss it. They don't want to accept we know what happened.

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    Re: Ferguson officer who shot Michael Brown resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyMoonlight View Post
    I like cops. I think cops are awesome. Yes, some not so great cops, but I will always come down on the side of the cops. They do an incredible job, see horrific things and are decent human beings having to deal with the scum of society on a daily basis.
    I bet the not so great cops have saved peoples lives in their line of duty.

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    Re: Ferguson officer who shot Michael Brown resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by missypea View Post
    I think this ^ mindset is a big part of the problem that exists in the Ferguson PD and others like it.
    • I struggle with the fact that Wilson made a decision not to carry a taser because it's cumbersome. You can get used to using a taser and it stops being so cumbersome. You get used to it and become efficient with it.
    • I struggle with the statement that Wilson made regarding his mace. I understand why he didn't use it while he was in the vehicle but he wasn't in the vehicle when he killed Brown. He had an opportunity to apprehend someone using tactics he'd been trained in but he didn't do that.


    I think the value Wilson placed on the human life in Ferguson is reflected, somewhat, in those decisions.
    It's only a problem to people who refuse to live in reality.

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    Re: Ferguson officer who shot Michael Brown resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Without video evidence, we're left with the forensics, the officer's statements, and conflicting witness testimony, much of which was weeded out as witnesses admitted they hadn't really seen what they told the tv cameras they'd seen, along with other witnesses who backed up the officer with statements that never wavered.

    1.) Michael Brown had parts of his body inside the officer's car, assaulted the officer with one or more punches to the head, and had his hand on the officer's gun when it was fired inside the car. The placement of Brown's blood inside the car, along with contact gunshot residue on Brown's hand, proved that.

    2.) Wilson had called for backup, and his training required him to keep the suspect in sight, repeatedly demanding that he drop to the ground. Blood and other forensic evidence proved that Michael Brown ran about 100 feet, then turned and began to move back toward Wilson. Then and only then did the gunfire begin. The final shot took place when Brown, who outweighed Wilson by nearly 100 pounds, was 8 to 10 feet away. There was no time for backup to arrive before the shooting began, and the officer's shots were fired as he realized that Brown was capable of killing him if he reached him. It was self-defense.

    Wilson had approximately 15 seconds to make every decision he made. It's easy for all of us out here to say, "why didn't he just taze him"... the kid was too far away for a taser, assuming Wilson had one, when he exited the car, then turned and headed back too fast to change weapons; "why did he fire so many times"... he's not a great shot, this was the first time Wilson had ever fired his weapon on duty and the kid was moving fast; "why didn't he just let the kid get away"... as a police officer, it's Wilson's job not to do that. And on and on. It's a whole 'nother ballgame to be there and realize if you make the wrong choice, you have seconds to live.

    This isn't the Martin/Zimmerman case, where a swaggering civilian provoked a completely unnecessary confrontation with a young, slightly-built kid. This was a police officer facing a massive opponent who was, in the officer and some witnesses words, "charging" him. The grand jury only had to find "probable cause" to indict, which is the lowest possible standard. They couldn't find that, because the evidence didn't even support the lowest possible standard.

    Personally, I wonder where all the outrage and pickets were when Fullerton, Calif., police officers... 3-6 of them... surrounded a mentally ill (white) man, tased him three times after he was already on the ground, then proceeded to beat him so badly every bone in his face was broken, his black/blue face was swollen to the size of a beachball, and he died within hours. Those officers went to trial... and were acquitted. That is the kind of blatant, outrageous police brutality abuse and failure of justice that makes me want to scream and puke. Not the Michael Brown case. Assault a cop, try to get a cop's gun, and finally charge a cop with his weapon drawn... well, you're going down. Period.
    Have I told you lately how much I adore you? Your posts on the matter are always sensible and never filled with emotion. Excellent recap of the facts as we know them. Facts are also not filled with emotion.

    Multiple likes for this post.
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  5. #125
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    Re: Ferguson officer who shot Michael Brown resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    /double like Di. Best post in this whole thread.

    I think Upsideguy and others in this thread need to read this.
    I read it. It is a great closing argument for the defense, but that is all it is. To get to her conclusion, one must weigh some testimony over other testimony, and not consider that there is others things that are unknown. While we appreciate that the testimony she chooses to accept is not inconsistent with the physical evidence, there is conflicting testimony and other explanations that are also not inconsistent with the physical evidence. It advocates a position that may or may not be true, because she takes liberty in filling in the blanks.

    Too much of this thread involves people "filling in the blanks". My only point is to start with the foundational piece of what we can accept: the Grand Jury recommendation (though, we could, if we chose, pick that apart as well... but you have to start somewhere) and from that basis, highlight the fact much remains unknown (blank).

    The GJ was asked to see if the evidence (as presented) in the matter was sufficient to document probable cause that one of several crimes (resulting in death occurred). Their findings, which were merely recommendations to the DA (and reflect the way the DA presented the case) were that there was not sufficient evidence to support probable cause and thus no charges should be filed. They may no other determination. They did not try the case nor challenge the evidence.

    So, as a result of the GJ activity, we can continue with the PRESUMPTION of innocence of criminal wrong doing for Officer Wilson. Any other conclusion one wishes to come to is pure conjecture (though granted, some conjecture might be supportable) or otherwise speculative. In making your determinations as to what happened, you may think you are right, but the truth is, there is chance you are not.

    While the GJ clearing Wilson of criminal wrongdoing may have sanctioned his legal right to kill Brown, it did not give him the moral kill Brown (that is to be "litigated" in the eternal court). The GJ clearing of Wilson might have relieved him of criminal culpability, it did not relieve him of responsibility (that will likely be litigated in civil court).

    There are far more questions that remain..... those of you that pretend to know the answers to those questions are pretending or are deluded. Its ok to have an opinion; just respect the fact that your opinion can be wrong.

    Wilson gets the Presumption of Innocence.... but, let me remind you that OJ Simpson also enjoys the presumption of innocence in the death of another Brown..... If we respect system of justice and the rule of law, both are equally valid.

    Again, the only "FACT" about this case is the GJ determined that Wilson was not criminally culpable. Everything else is simply opinion.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 12-03-14 at 01:41 AM.

  6. #126
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    Re: Ferguson officer who shot Michael Brown resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    ...

    Again, the only "FACT" about this case is the GJ determined that Wilson was not criminally culpable. Everything else is simply opinion.
    No. Everything else is documented, scientific forensic evidence... also known as "fact".

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    Re: Ferguson officer who shot Michael Brown resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    Next time, Wilson may not be so quick to shoot an unarmed person. Anything that happens to him, he brought on himself.
    Yeah! Next time he should let himself be shot and killed.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Ferguson officer who shot Michael Brown resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Brown was unarmed. How would he shoot someone?

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    Re: Ferguson officer who shot Michael Brown resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    I think there is consensus on what happened in the car. If it ended there, there would likely not be an issue. Unfortunately, he was shot and killed away from the car. That is the element of controversy. No one really knows how / why he was actually killed or why he needed to be killed.
    I think Wilson feared for his life.
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    Re: Ferguson officer who shot Michael Brown resigns

    Tasers and Mace are called "nonlethal weapons" but in reality they can and have killed people.

    1) They are basically "please don't sue me" weapons. In other words cops can use them before shooting someone and be able to honestly say "I did everything possible before shooting".

    2) Against large people tasers and mace are largely ineffective. Especially against someone of Brown's size and youth.

    Against someone small they are often TOO effective (deadly or highly injurious).

    3) Finally, because of extremely short range, both require officers to allow suspects to close with them to literal knife fighting range which many depts. counsel against.

    Basically if they are close enough to mace, they are close enough to grab your gun.

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