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Thread: U.S. shootings by police, prison conditions trouble U.N.....

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    Re: U.S. shootings by police, prison conditions trouble U.N.....

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    Really? Ok, maybe not the majority - but law enforcement rarely gets called on their abuses of power, even when blatant. See my earlier post or look up Walter McMillian if you are curious.

    How many police officers are ever sanctioned for killing civilians? very few.

    You may not like the UN pointing it out. But that shouldn't make you ignore the abuses that do happen.


    Who said I ignored any abuses? Human error is when and where? Also really I am not one that looks to stick up for Law Enforcement anytime they cross a line.

    I live in Chicago.....I have known cops that have never pulled their gun. I also know cops who talk about living with the issue of shooting another being for the rest of their lives. Whether killing them or just wounding them. Even when justified.

    But for the UN to consider us to be any sort of major problem with this for the Grand Stage. Is pathetic.

    How many Urban cities with Cops that are minorities that step over the line? Or are quick to pull that pistol? That's here in the US?

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    Re: U.S. shootings by police, prison conditions trouble U.N.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Say what. The UN has the nerve to flap their mouths about US police and what they think is brutality? Still talking about torture with terrorists? What do you think about the UN and their so called experts? Can they say they have a Right to be concerned?

    Shouldn't the UN be worried about the major violence coming out of the ME, Africa, and Asia?

    What do you think about BO sending nearly 30 Senior Officials to answer to the UN?
    Um... you do realize that any objective review of the US prison population, our justice system, how we craft law, the militarization of our police and the number of times lethal force is used, the rise of the security surveillance state well on our way to police state mentality should raise plenty of concerns.

    Personally I think we need to take off the roses and sunshine view of our society and start to talk about that fact, not fiction, that we lead the planet of all reporting nations (including those like Russia, China, Iran, Iraq, Syria, the rest of the Middle East, most African nations including Egypt and Libya, etc.) in total incarceration rate and length of time served per crime committed. We have an obvious problem with disparity by race in the incarceration rate in comparison to actual drug use (go check with the AMA if you do not believe me.) We do in fact militarize our police and use various forms of surveillance against everyone in this nation in very questionalbe Constitutional ways. And of course no one thinks it exists, until they speak and confirm it, that we tend to profile and use force accordingly. Socially we have a series of concerns which end up with real fiscal costs and economic consequence.

    By many sources the US no longer is in the lead when it comes to Freedom indexes and at the same time are in fact are quite violent when compared to some of these other nations. We have several cities in the US that rank high globally in violent crime. Go look up Chicago or Detroit if you do not believe me.

    Now I'll agree, I find the UN to be largely ineffective and useless. We should have jumped out of that mess a long way back. Nothing but a bureaucratic nightmare made up of dubious characters. That said, the UN may be right on this one more than we are willing to admit.
    Last edited by OrphanSlug; 11-29-14 at 12:49 PM.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: U.S. shootings by police, prison conditions trouble U.N.....

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    Um... you do realize that any objective review of the US prison population, our justice system, how we craft law, the militarization of our police and the number of times lethal force is used, the rise of the security surveillance state well on our way to police state mentality should raise plenty of concerns.

    Personally I think we need to take off the roses and sunshine view of our society and start to talk about that fact, not fiction, that we lead the planet of all reporting nations (including those like Russia, China, Iran, Iraq, Syria, the rest of the Middle East, most African nations including Egypt and Libya, etc.) in total incarceration rate and length of time served per crime committed. We have an obvious problem with disparity by race in the incarceration rate in comparison to actual drug use (go check with the AMA if you do not believe me.) We do in fact militarize our police and use various forms of surveillance against everyone in this nation in very questionalbe Constitutional ways. And of course no one thinks it exists, until they speak and confirm it, that we tend to profile and use force accordingly. Socially we have a series of concerns which end up with real fiscal costs and economic consequence.

    By many sources the US no longer is in the lead when it comes to Freedom indexes and at the same time are in fact are quite violent when compared to some of these other nations. We have several cities in the US that rank high globally in violent crime. Go look up Chicago or Detroit if you do not believe me.

    Now I'll agree, I find the UN to be largely ineffective and useless. We should have jumped out of that mess a long way back. Nothing but a bureaucratic nightmare made up of dubious characters. That said, the UN may be right on this one more than we are willing to admit.


    Yeah tell me about it.....I think with my Location. I understand what Americans and Chicagoans have as a concern. But it is like I stated. The majority of US Law Enforcement doesn't just act with Impunity.

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    Re: U.S. shootings by police, prison conditions trouble U.N.....

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    Um... you do realize that any objective review of the US prison population, our justice system, how we craft law, the militarization of our police and the number of times lethal force is used, the rise of the security surveillance state well on our way to police state mentality should raise plenty of concerns.

    Personally I think we need to take off the roses and sunshine view of our society and start to talk about that fact, not fiction, that we lead the planet of all reporting nations (including those like Russia, China, Iran, Iraq, Syria, the rest of the Middle East, most African nations including Egypt and Libya, etc.) in total incarceration rate and length of time served per crime committed. We have an obvious problem with disparity by race in the incarceration rate in comparison to actual drug use (go check with the AMA if you do not believe me.) We do in fact militarize our police and use various forms of surveillance against everyone in this nation in very questionalbe Constitutional ways. And of course no one thinks it exists, until they speak and confirm it, that we tend to profile and use force accordingly. Socially we have a series of concerns which end up with real fiscal costs and economic consequence.

    By many sources the US no longer is in the lead when it comes to Freedom indexes and at the same time are in fact are quite violent when compared to some of these other nations. We have several cities in the US that rank high globally in violent crime. Go look up Chicago or Detroit if you do not believe me.

    Now I'll agree, I find the UN to be largely ineffective and useless. We should have jumped out of that mess a long way back. Nothing but a bureaucratic nightmare made up of dubious characters. That said, the UN may be right on this one more than we are willing to admit.
    Greetings, Orphan Slug.

    IMO, the UN didn't decide on their own to make a statement about this - it was brought to them by the current administration. I believe it was politically driven by this administration's Justice Department because of the Ferguson decision, which was apparently a disappointment to them, but we have a Constitution that spells out our rights, and a legal system to ensure that the law is followed. I wouldn't give either of them up no matter what the UN thinks about anything. Let them concern themselves with countries that don't have a rule of law in place, and we'll handle our country's affairs without their interference.

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    Re: U.S. shootings by police, prison conditions trouble U.N.....

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, Orphan Slug.

    IMO, the UN didn't decide on their own to make a statement about this - it was brought to them by the current administration. I believe it was politically driven by this administration's Justice Department because of the Ferguson decision, which was apparently a disappointment to them, but we have a Constitution that spells out our rights, and a legal system to ensure that the law is followed. I wouldn't give either of them up no matter what the UN thinks about anything. Let them concern themselves with countries that don't have a rule of law in place, and we'll handle our country's affairs without their interference.
    Good afternoon to you!

    My issue with that is the one way street attitude it assumes. Ideologically as a Libertarian I would agree with you that we should not be in any other nation's internal matters any more than they should be involved in ours. But, you cannot tell me that the US and the UN do not go running around interfering in other nations anyway. No matter if those other nations have a rule of law in place or not.

    The harsh truth here is no matter if the UN did this on their own accord or the current administration appealed to the UN to do so... they are right about our concerns. In some ways I agree with you that we have a mess in our own backyard to clean up, but we are not doing so now are we? Sociologically and economically things continue to slowly deteriorate because of our attitudes on handling our own populace in these ways.

    Something has to give here. And if it take a useless UN report to tell us to look at our own problems it may not be the worst thing given that everything we are saying about these stats is in fact accurate. So even if the UN gets to accidentally be right, we should be looking at these things.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: U.S. shootings by police, prison conditions trouble U.N.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    I'm worried about that stuff too, man, which was more-or-less my point: our police are militarized, do use excessive force, do spy on people, do seize property and possessions willy nilly and minorities are targeted far more excessively than people that share the same skin color that I do. Perhaps, instead of chastising the U.N. for pointing out the faults we know we have here, we should be speaking truth to power, that is, our governments -- federal, state and local. Look, I'm no fanboy of the U.N., but I'm not going to say that they're wrong -- **** is ****ed up here, man. You know?
    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    Um... you do realize that any objective review of the US prison population, our justice system, how we craft law, the militarization of our police and the number of times lethal force is used, the rise of the security surveillance state well on our way to police state mentality should raise plenty of concerns.

    Personally I think we need to take off the roses and sunshine view of our society and start to talk about that fact, not fiction, that we lead the planet of all reporting nations (including those like Russia, China, Iran, Iraq, Syria, the rest of the Middle East, most African nations including Egypt and Libya, etc.) in total incarceration rate and length of time served per crime committed. We have an obvious problem with disparity by race in the incarceration rate in comparison to actual drug use (go check with the AMA if you do not believe me.) We do in fact militarize our police and use various forms of surveillance against everyone in this nation in very questionalbe Constitutional ways. And of course no one thinks it exists, until they speak and confirm it, that we tend to profile and use force accordingly. Socially we have a series of concerns which end up with real fiscal costs and economic consequence.

    By many sources the US no longer is in the lead when it comes to Freedom indexes and at the same time are in fact are quite violent when compared to some of these other nations. We have several cities in the US that rank high globally in violent crime. Go look up Chicago or Detroit if you do not believe me.

    Now I'll agree, I find the UN to be largely ineffective and useless. We should have jumped out of that mess a long way back. Nothing but a bureaucratic nightmare made up of dubious characters. That said, the UN may be right on this one more than we are willing to admit.

    Two great posts. We do have lots to worry about in this country, whether or not the UN points it out.

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    Re: U.S. shootings by police, prison conditions trouble U.N.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    A U.N. anti-torture panel that’s investigating the United States said Friday that it was deeply concerned by what it described as the high incidence of police brutality and shootings _ especially against African-Americans _ in the U.S., was troubled by what it called harsh conditions in many prisons and was worried about the interrogation methods used on detainees. The experts on the United Nations panel called for declassifying evidence of torture by the U.S. – in particular Guantanamo Bay detainees’ accounts – and declassifying and promptly releasing, with minimal redactions, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence’s report about the CIA’s secret detention and interrogation program.
    Read more here: GENEVA: U.S. shootings by police, prison conditions trouble U.N. | World | Columbus Ledger Enquirer
    While the UN's worrying about our business, Russia is continuing it's proxy war in Ukraine & ISIS continues to kill/rape/destroy in Iraq and Syria.

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    Re: U.S. shootings by police, prison conditions trouble U.N.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    While the UN's worrying about our business, Russia is continuing it's proxy war in Ukraine & ISIS continues to kill/rape/destroy in Iraq and Syria.
    and the UN has been blacklisting people in ISIS
    http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News...-in-Iraq-.html

    It is able to do more than one thing at a time

    Other UN comments on ISIS
    ​U.N. expresses "deep outrage" at ISIS - CBS News

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/04/wo...dren.html?_r=0

    U.N. to investigate alleged human rights abuses by ISIS - CNN.com

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/22/wo...de-threat.html

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    Re: U.S. shootings by police, prison conditions trouble U.N.....

    a country's moral standing before the UN is inversely proportionate with its ability to feed its own people

    Richard Sapir



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    Re: U.S. shootings by police, prison conditions trouble U.N.....

    The UN still exists? I'd forgotten about them. ..
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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