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Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here [W:60, 267]

Do you have any evidence that any wrong doing like that was introduced here?

If you look at Wilson's statement it certainly raises suspicion that he is not being truthful. It doesn't make sense. That may not rise to the level of proof beyond a reasonable doubt but that alone should be enough to establish probable cause to put it in front of a jury in a trial to decide.
 
Re: Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here

I'm interpreting Rocket's post for him.

The mother, from the clip, did not seem to incite a riot. She became overwhelmed with grief and became silent after her complaints that they were wrong. The stepfather, on the other hand, absolutely did.

I am no lawyer, but I think the mother was complicit in inciting as well because she also was incorporating "F... the Police" into her grief stricken anger, and also for the mother to be out there stand above the crowd, displaying such anger, and grief absolutely was stirring the crowd....And she knew it.
 
If you look at Wilson's statement it certainly raises suspicion that he is not being truthful. It doesn't make sense. That may not rise to the level of proof beyond a reasonable doubt but that alone should be enough to establish probable cause to put it in front of a jury in a trial to decide.

That's your opinion...The GJ disagreed with you.
 
If you look at Wilson's statement it certainly raises suspicion that he is not being truthful. It doesn't make sense. That may not rise to the level of proof beyond a reasonable doubt but that alone should be enough to establish probable cause to put it in front of a jury in a trial to decide.

Wilson't statements or those attributed to him from your leftwing blogs? We had over 70 hours of testimony, interviews, and evidence. The Grand Jury ruled. You don't like the ruling but tough, that is reality except in the liberal world where liberals throw a tantrum when they don't get their way.
 
Re: Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here

I am no lawyer, but I think the mother was complicit in inciting as well because she also was incorporating "F... the Police" into her grief stricken anger, and also for the mother to be out there stand above the crowd, displaying such anger, and grief absolutely was stirring the crowd....And she knew it.

Perhaps it was the tv I was watching it on but the "**** the police" slogan seemed to come from another woman in the crowd, and not her.

As to their presence there, I wouldn't have been there. I would have been in the comfort of my own home with people I cared for. I wouldn't want to be in the mayhem of the streets and I wouldn't want my anger to push forward an already tense situation to the brink.

What was going through their heads at that moment, I do not know. But when the stepfather said those things, it was of course over the line and he is lucky that the politics of this are such that he wouldn't be punished.
 
Well, rhetorically it would be the violence that was experienced (or perpetrated by) Michael Brown (or if you were of the persuasion, young African American males in general) and you would respond with violence in kind (destroying the structures of society).

As I've said from the start of this thread (and the weeks before), I am in no way on the side of the mob and I think many people are being far too kind to these people.

but at least you weren't trying to explain the gratuitous use of the adverb...;)


Here's the way I see it. You have a criminal who thought he was bulletproof because as some of the testimony had shown, he didn't think the cop had the balls to shoot him. He was proven wrong.

Now, there are other things which do deserve righteous indignation. The fact that his body was left in the street for 4 hours and then thrown into the back of a police wagon? Yeah, that's some jacked up doo doo. Is it burn the town down jacked up? No.

I am all for an uprising if said uprising is just, or to combat/protest and real injustice.

This however is a contrived injustice based off of other wrongdoings(perceived or real) and sentiments.
 
Re: Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here

Perhaps it was the tv I was watching it on but the "**** the police" slogan seemed to come from another woman in the crowd, and not her.

As to their presence there, I wouldn't have been there. I would have been in the comfort of my own home with people I cared for. I wouldn't want to be in the mayhem of the streets and I wouldn't want my anger to push forward an already tense situation to the brink.

What was going through their heads at that moment, I do not know. But when the stepfather said those things, it was of course over the line and he is lucky that the politics of this are such that he wouldn't be punished.

I agree, however if you watch the video earlier in this thread, she absolutely does say 'F*** the Police' more than once...
 
Re: Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here

I agree, however if you watch the video earlier in this thread, she absolutely does say 'F*** the Police' more than once...
Which illustrates exactly what I said....that the good cops out there should help weed out the bad apples because it makes their job just that much more difficult. However, the code of silence is strong. Hopefully one day the good cops will come to this realization.
 
It has nothing to do with race for me. It has to do with the constant refusal of grand jurors and juries to hold police accountable for their actions. They will bend over backwards to give a pass to a person because they carry a badge.

Or perhaps when it's someones job to put their life on the life to protect people, then the GJ finds it a little more reasonable when deadly force is used.

Nah, if we're to make him a martyr, might as well take it all the way...

This kind of statement makes you no better than the man trying to get people to burn the town down. :roll:


Everyone keeps posting this opinion piece. I don't find any of it unbelievable. What I hear is a person trying to recall details from when they were put in a life or death situation. And to find Brown's actions (from Wilson's statement) unbelievable is giving Brown a free pass. If he gets his ass off the street and onto the sidewalk, he gets to live another day. Why does the aggressor in this situation get a free pass on his actions?

If you look at Wilson's statement it certainly raises suspicion that he is not being truthful. It doesn't make sense. That may not rise to the level of proof beyond a reasonable doubt but that alone should be enough to establish probable cause to put it in front of a jury in a trial to decide.

What part of his statement doesn't make sense? I found it made perfect sense.
 
but at least you weren't trying to explain the gratuitous use of the adverb...;)


Here's the way I see it. You have a criminal who thought he was bulletproof because as some of the testimony had shown, he didn't think the cop had the balls to shoot him. He was proven wrong.

Now, there are other things which do deserve righteous indignation. The fact that his body was left in the street for 4 hours and then thrown into the back of a police wagon? Yeah, that's some jacked up doo doo. Is it burn the town down jacked up? No.

I am all for an uprising if said uprising is just, or to combat/protest and real injustice.

This however is a contrived injustice based off of other wrongdoings(perceived or real) and sentiments.

That's largely my view, but I abstain from making judgments on the particulars of the case itself. I am in no way able to make that kind of a judgment. I am however, quite able to say that public disorder is bad and unjustified. Revolutionaries always attempt to spread their delusional justifications.
 
Re: Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here

I agree, however if you watch the video earlier in this thread, she absolutely does say 'F*** the Police' more than once...

It didn't seem that way, but I am more than willing to be wrong about what I hear or don't hear when drinking my coffee.
 
Re: Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here

As a side note, Obama is currently speaking on Ferguson in the Jefferson Park neighborhood which is about oh, less than 3 miles from me. He's there to speak on immigration. Now, the area he is in (well, close by it) is known as "Little Warsaw" as it is the heart of the Polish Community here in Chicago. One, how he's trying to tie Ferguson into Immigration is laughable. Two, I don't think a meaningful representation of those 5 million illegals are from Polonia. Why isn't he in Little Village? There he can see first hand how fake green cards are made and distributed. Nah, no, he can't go there, that wouldn't make a good photo op... Let's talk immigration to a backdrop of pasty white europeans...

Boooooooooy, I tell ya...
 
Re: Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here

Which illustrates exactly what I said....that the good cops out there should help weed out the bad apples because it makes their job just that much more difficult. However, the code of silence is strong. Hopefully one day the good cops will come to this realization.

Oh knock off the "code of silence" crap...It has NOTHING to do with this case.
 
Or perhaps when it's someones job to put their life on the life to protect people, then the GJ finds it a little more reasonable when deadly force is used.This kind of statement makes you no better than the man trying to get people to burn the town down. :roll:Everyone keeps posting this opinion piece. I don't find any of it unbelievable. What I hear is a person trying to recall details from when they were put in a life or death situation. And to find Brown's actions (from Wilson's statement) unbelievable is giving Brown a free pass. If he gets his ass off the street and onto the sidewalk, he gets to live another day. Why does the aggressor in this situation get a free pass on his actions?What part of his statement doesn't make sense? I found it made perfect sense.
Almost the whole thing. Starting with that someone who just committed a theft is going to getall in your face to a cop that is politely asking him to get on the sidewalk. If anything, they would comply so that they don't get busted for the theft....or they would run. The part where he allegedly says to a cop holding a gun "You are too much of a ***** to shoot me"....it defies logic. It reads as if someone who is quickly trying to manufacture a story...and trust me, having represented hundreds if not thousands of people charged with crimes, I've read many a manufactured story. This one just rings of fabrication all over it.
 
This kind of statement makes you no better than the man trying to get people to burn the town down. :roll:

Than you've no sense of moral equivalence.
 
Re: Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here

Oh knock off the "code of silence" crap...It has NOTHING to do with this case.
Absolutely it does. Whenever a cop is charged, rightly or wrongly, cops always rally around them. When was the last time other than in the movie "training day" did you hear about a cop turning a bad cop in? It rarely if ever happens.
 
Re: Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here

Absolutely it does. Whenever a cop is charged, rightly or wrongly, cops always rally around them. When was the last time other than in the movie "training day" did you hear about a cop turning a bad cop in? It rarely if ever happens.

What does that have to do with this case...Be specific.
 
Re: Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here

What does that have to do with this case...Be specific.
It only has to do with the case that cops like Wilson make it harder on the good cops out there who honestly and selflessly do a public service. That is the only context that I have brought this up.
 
That's largely my view, but I abstain from making judgments on the particulars of the case itself. I am in no way able to make that kind of a judgment. I am however, quite able to say that public disorder is bad and unjustified. Revolutionaries always attempt to spread their delusional justifications.

Well, we wouldn't be Americans if we didn't offer our unsolicited opinions, right?

I agree, the name of the game is to garner support, no need to let facts get in the way of that...
 
Re: Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here [W:60]

National gaurdsmen are soldoers. Soldiers are trained to destroy the enemy. That's why policemen and soldiers are seperate fron each other. Plus, NG soldiers don't arrest authority. They're not there to arrest anyone. They're there to use force to suppress the insurection.

Precisely. There is a clear separation of duties which has become a very grey area in recent years. Local police should not be riding around in heavily armored tactical vehicles armed with sound cannons and snipers hiding behind sandbags on the roof, wearing army surplus combat uniforms and body armor, and carrying around military grade weaponry. Its a few hoodlums looting weaves, committing arson, throwing rocks, and groups of people milling around in the street not the Taliban. If they can't handle the problem then they should call in the national guard instead of playing soldier.
 
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But Excon there have been outside groups known as professional agitators moving into Ferguson for weeks into the St. Louis area and law enforcement knows who they are. There have been folks covering this in the news for weeks.

But nothing incited the crowds more than Michael Brown's mother and his stepfather last night and it got caught on tape. The woman in the white beanie and sunglasses is Brown's mother. The one in the green and white beanie and green and white shirt with the silk screen print of M Brown is his stepfather. His last name is Head. He has a rap sheet of multiple felons. Watch the video of him standing on the platform inciting the crowd to "Burn this Bitch Down". And so they did



That's probably not a video Al Sharpton would share with his audience on MSNBC.

How ironic.

This in no way addresses what you quoted.

All of which has already been addressed.

We know there were outside agitators as well as outside protestors.
Just as there was local agitators, protestors and looters.
 
From the article:

Let's take a breath and recap. Wilson sees two young black men walking in the middle of the street. He pulls over and politely asks them to use the sidewalk. They refuse. He asks again, still polite. Brown tells Wilson — again, a uniformed police officer in a police car — "**** what you have to say." Wilson stops his car, tries to get out, and Brown slams the car door on him and then begins punching him through the open window.

You think this is the first time anyone, black or not, has told a police officer in uniform in a police car - "**** what you have to say"?

From Wilsons statement:
I was doing the, just scrambling, trying to get his arms out of my face and him from grabbing me and everything else. He turned to his...if he's at my vehicle, he turned to his left and handed the first subject. He said, "here, take these." He was holding a pack of — several packs of cigarillos which was just, what was stolen from the Market Store was several packs of cigarillos. He said, "here, hold these" and when he did that I grabbed his right arm trying just to control something at that point. Um, as I was holding it, and he came around, he came around with his arm extended, fist made, and went like that straight at my face with his...a full swing from his left hand.

From the article:
So Brown is punching inside the car. Wilson is scrambling to deflect the blows, to protect his face, to regain control of the situation. And then Brown stops, turns to his left, says to his friend, "Here, hold these," and hands him the cigarillos stolen from Ferguson Market. Then he turns back to Wilson and, with his left hand now freed from holding the contraband goods, throws a haymaker at Wilson.


From the article:
None of this fits with what we know of Michael Brown. Brown wasn't a hardened felon. He didn't have a death wish. And while he might have been stoned, this isn't how stoned people act. The toxicology report did not indicate he was on PCP or something that would've led to suicidal aggression.

I don't know anything about Michael Brown prior to this incident and neither does the narrator. What he does have is what has been talked about after Michael Brown was shot. How many times do you hear bad things about people after they are dead? Never speak ill of the dead and whatnot. He may not have been a hardened felon, but he was a thief. And he was engaged in a criminal action not long before being aggressive to Wilson. It isn't a leap for me to go from robbery to assault on a police officer.
This sounds more like a man making a statement after he had time to recall everything that happened. His first account to his supervisor was much more succinct because of his state of shock. Nothing unbelievable here.



 
Re: Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here [W:60]

you're right and part of the problem is our political system itself. The divide and conquer of our political campaigns that turns blocks of voters against each other. Blacks against whites, Hispanics against whites, rich against the poor, even at time blacks and hispanics against Asians. Religious against the non-religious and on and on. Divide and conquer, make on group hate the other in search of votes. The problem is this has been going on for a long time and the longer it goes on the more hate for each other exists.

Here in Georgia one of our senate candidates sent out a mailer to just black folks basically stating if they didn't get out and vote for her, there would be a bunch of Ferguson's taking place in Georgia. Divide and conquer in search for votes.
It's a wonder there haven't been a ton of Ferguson's.



The only thing I can disagree with in that is "part" of the problem. It IS the problem; this is the unwanted child of divisive politics, decades of using race as leverage; the protests of "racist!" at every early criticism is more than an annoying toss back, but repeated again and again in the background dialogue, people on both sides begin to believe it.

When trouble comes, people instinctively look to their leaders, few presidents lose elections in war time, George W. Bush score better numbers than Reagan in the post 911 days with words.

But the leadership, both parties, have been creating division. Where other jurisdictions have "wedge issues" like oil pipelines, the politique nationale has become a war zone of created chasms. And the current adminstration, void of vision, ability and common sense has perfected the weapon into a battering ram, no issue can escape the void.

What alarmed me then was when Obama weighed into the Trayvor Martin thing, becoming the first president in history to smash the protocol of presidents not commenting on the outcomes of trials. But he went even further, commenting on the finding of a jury of his peers. So the president has little or no faith in the system, there cannot not be a relationship to the people of Ferguson who also don't have any faith in the finding of a jury.

As with the outcome of the mid terms, this is an extension of the distrust of the voter, fed up with the bull**** instead of real solutions, a mob expressing its anger at everything, the killing of a black kid by a white cop being to the Watts riots what was Rodney King, a flash point igniting decades of dry tinder.

In my world, the "only to blacks" thing alone would have disqualified her from office...but really, she is doing what works. The divide has been there and getting wider, she is simply one more trying to exploit it. Me? I would camp out in front of here office demanding to know why white people are so undervalued to her and what that means in terms of representing me with two colored kids...bitch.
 
Almost the whole thing. Starting with that someone who just committed a theft is going to getall in your face to a cop that is politely asking him to get on the sidewalk. If anything, they would comply so that they don't get busted for the theft....or they would run. The part where he allegedly says to a cop holding a gun "You are too much of a ***** to shoot me"....it defies logic. It reads as if someone who is quickly trying to manufacture a story...and trust me, having represented hundreds if not thousands of people charged with crimes, I've read many a manufactured story. This one just rings of fabrication all over it.


Well get your personal bias out of the equation. If Brown was in the state of mind where he could commit a crime, is it a stretch to imagine that he would be in the state of mind to tell a cop to **** off and retaliate when the cop didn't respond by going away? Not in my mind.

Do you really believe that no one has ever told someone who was holding a gun that they are too much of a ***** to shoot me? Or is it just in this case?
 
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