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Thread: Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here [W:60, 267]

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    Re: Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here [W:60, 267]

    Last edited by jmotivator; 11-26-14 at 11:18 AM.
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    Re: Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here [W:60, 267]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Huh ?

    I would say based on Witnesses accounts AND physical evidence that his " actual " innocence IS known.
    Yes, YOU would say that.... but that is not a correct legal analysis...

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    Re: Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here [W:60, 267]

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Yes, YOU would say that.... but that is not a correct legal analysis...
    Actually, yes, it is. You are presumed innocent until a court of law finds guilt. In this case there has been no finding of guilt. So legally speaking he is innocent.

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    Re: Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here [W:60, 267]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Oh no, no, no....That's not how it works in this country...If you want Kangaroo rubber stamps to give this guy the needle then move to N. Korea....McCoullough (sp) threw every piece of evidence at this GJ, and they took an incredible 70 days pouring through it to reach their decision to not indict...The problem you have is that you don't like their decision so you have to tear it down with foolish claims...Fact is that Wilson did nothing wrong, except maybe show up for work that morning....
    You are reading an awful lot into my post. I never said I was for or against the outcome. I am merely dealing with esoteric -- their mission was to determine if they had sufficient evidence to pursue charges; they did not. The only real conclusion is that... people want to extend that conclusion to other things (which you seem to like to do, as you are concluding how I feel about this when I made no such declaration).

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    Re: Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here [W:60, 267]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Actually, yes, it is. You are presumed innocent until a court of law finds guilt. In this case there has been no finding of guilt. So legally speaking he is innocent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Holy ****!

    For all intent and purposes, the GJ not finding a reason to indict after having been presented with all the evidence is basically the same as saying he did not commit a crime, because the evidence doesn't exist to say a crime was committed.
    For "all intent and purposes" is not the same as what the actual determination is. Though you chose to make this determination, as many others have, it is not technically correct.

    The GJ job was only to determine if there was sufficient evidence presented to determine if there was probable cause that a crime was committed. Their job does not extend to determining actual innocence. They are only working with evidence that is available at this time, without the benefit of all evidence that might be gathered in the process of trial. Moreover, they are working only with the evidence as presented by a single party, with the benefit of argument.

    Contrary to what you learned on Perry Mason, the actual innocence of a defendant is not relevant in the indictment process, nor is it relevant in trial. A trial either proves guilt or defaults to innocence, it never is designed to prove innocence. In this case, the GJ merely weighed whether sufficient evidence was presented to provide probable cause that a indictment should be made. They found that evidence, as presented, was not sufficient. Whether a crime was committed was unproven, hence by the logic of our legal system with its default (presumption) of innocence, only then can you infer a crime was not committed. That conclusion, however, is just that and does not mean that the crime did not exist; it only means there was not substantial basis to say that it did.

    As a matter of illustration, for "all intent and purposes", the jury in the OJ Simpson decided he did not commit the murder of Nicole Brown. They never decided on his actual innocence, but we defaulted to presumed innocence. Now would you like to take the position that the jury heard all the OJ evidence and returned a verdict, therefore he did not do it?

    But, Holy *****, I find this particularly curious that you are suddenly touting the verdict of the court as gospel given that you have repeatedly argued that Michael Dunn is innocent, even though a court of law, having considered all of the evidence, found him guilty. Somehow I see some selective logic being applied by you in this.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 11-26-14 at 04:33 PM.

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    Re: Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here [W:60]

    here is an excellent overview of one of the major flaws of the grand jury decision:
    Lawrence O’Donnell: Why did McCulloch pin so much on unreliable ‘Witness #10′?
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    Re: Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here [W:60, 267]

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Incase you want to watch this over the net here are some links to stream it live.

    Ferguson Grand Jury Decision WATCH LIVESTREAM VIDEO | Mediaite

    OR

    USTREAM - Broadcast Live Streaming Video, Watch Online Events, Chat Live, send a Tweet, follow on Facebook, record your Live Shows

    I was told by the hysterical lead up to this there will be looting, broken glass, white cops shooting black protesters and all sorts of raucous fun. Sadly though I think absolutely nothing will happen but... we'll see.

    edit: If your feed stalls out simply refresh and restart the video if necessary.
    The solution to this problem is body cams on every Police Officer. That is the only thing that will tell the truth.
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    Re: Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here [W:60, 267]

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    For "all intent and purposes" is not the same as what the actual determination is. Though you chose to make this determination, as many others have, it is not technically correct.

    The GJ job was only to determine if there was sufficient evidence presented to determine if there was probable cause that a crime was committed. Their job does not extend to determining actual innocence. They are only working with evidence that is available at this time, without the benefit of all evidence that might be gathered in the process of trial. Moreover, they are working only with the evidence as presented by a single party, with the benefit of argument.

    Contrary to what you learned on Perry Mason, the actual innocence of a defendant is not relevant in the indictment process, nor is it relevant in trial. A trial either proves guilt or defaults to innocence, it never is designed to prove innocence. In this case, the GJ merely weighed whether sufficient evidence was presented to provide probable cause that a indictment should be made. They found that evidence, as presented, was not sufficient. Whether a crime was committed was unproven, hence by the logic of our legal system with its default (presumption) of innocence, only then can you infer a crime was not committed. That conclusion, however, is just that and does not mean that the crime did not exist; it only means there was not substantial basis to say that it did.

    As a matter of illustration, for "all intent and purposes", the jury in the OJ Simpson decided he did not commit the murder of Nicole Brown. They never decided on his actual innocence, but we defaulted to presumed innocence. Now would you like to take the position that the jury heard all the OJ evidence and returned a verdict, therefore he did not do it?

    But, Holy *****, I find this particularly curious that you are suddenly touting the verdict of the court as gospel given that you have repeatedly argued that Michael Dunn is innocent, even though a court of law, having considered all of the evidence, found him guilty. Somehow I see some selective logic being applied by you in this.
    The grand jury found no evidence of a crime, so yes, Wilson is innocent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
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    Re: Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here [W:60, 267]

    Quote Originally Posted by Carleen View Post
    The solution to this problem is body cams on every Police Officer. That is the only thing that will tell the truth.
    That and patrolling in two man teams.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Ferguson LIVE announcement video feed links here [W:60]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    here is an excellent overview of one of the major flaws of the grand jury decision:
    Lawrence O’Donnell: Why did McCulloch pin so much on unreliable ‘Witness #10′?
    What the hell does O'Donnell know? He's--literally--and entertainer. He isn't a lawyer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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