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Thread: Reports: Ferguson grand jury has made decision

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    Re: Reports: Ferguson grand jury has made decision

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Then you aren't even making sense.. Since that wouldn't be an entirely "different matter", that would be the exact same matter. There is "an outrage" when it was a black man being killed in this manner, so how could it be a "different matter" if it's a white guiy being killed and there was still "an outrage". Look at the protests, the riots, much of the media coverage and most of the celebrity tweets.
    I'm making sense, but perhaps what I have said is not clear to you. Although there would be outrage, many of the people who support the no indictment decision would be outraged if there was no indictment in the scenario I put forward because in their minds, a black life is not as important as the life of a white Wall Street executive. As a result, it is more likely that there would be an indictment, given a similar preponderance of evidence. Face it, many whites will value the life of a white Wall Street executive more than a black guy from the Midwest.

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    Re: Reports: Ferguson grand jury has made decision

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I'm making sense, but perhaps what I have said is not clear to you. Although there would be outrage, many of the people who support the no indictment decision would be outraged if there was no indictment in the scenario I put forward because in their minds, a black life is not as important as the life of a white Wall Street executive. As a result, it is more likely that there would be an indictment, given a similar preponderance of evidence. Face it, many whites will value the life of a white Wall Street executive more than a black guy from the Midwest.
    As someone that believes this was the right decision, I've already disproven your claim as I (and most) wouldn't take any outrage from the exact same happening with just a twist on the races involved - I and most would still see it as the right conclusion.

    I'll never find a perfect match to your scenario, but close enough (unarmed whit man shot by non-white cop) and the cop was cleared:

    http://wreg.com/2014/11/25/salt-lake...med-white-man/

    No protests, no riots, and I think it was the right call.
    Last edited by buck; 11-28-14 at 01:14 PM.

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    Re: Reports: Ferguson grand jury has made decision

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I'm making sense, but perhaps what I have said is not clear to you. Although there would be outrage, many of the people who support the no indictment decision would be outraged if there was no indictment in the scenario I put forward because in their minds, a black life is not as important as the life of a white Wall Street executive. As a result, it is more likely that there would be an indictment, given a similar preponderance of evidence. Face it, many whites will value the life of a white Wall Street executive more than a black guy from the Midwest.
    First off your example of a "white Wall St. Executive" is ridiculous. 1. I doubt that an executive of any color would be strong arm robbing a store for cigarillo's. 2. I doubt that anyone in that position would be assualting a cop and going for his gun. As for a reaction from other "white Wall St. Executive's" it is laughable the assertion that they would go nuts and start birning down NYC.

    As far as analogies go. I rate this one a total fail, and believe that only those mired in victimhood would even think such a thing.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Reports: Ferguson grand jury has made decision

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Perceived injustice.

    My point is not to determine innocence or guilt, it is to explain that individual instances of perceived racial injustice constitute a threat to blacks collectively, as a result of systemic privilege. Similar instances regarding perceived injustice regarding a white victim do not threaten whites collectively, as there is no systemic privilege adversely affecting whites to be perpetuated.

    Given perceived injustice... Regarding blacks, it's a threat. Regarding whites, it's not. That is the reason blacks riot and whites do not regarding instances of perceived injustice.


    So you are saying because of systematic racial injustices, the best thing we can hope for is back people rioting over a thug who just robbed a store and charged a cop and got killed for it?


    The real culprit here starts with the media who played up the "white cop black "kid"" angle, fanning the flames, then the feurgeson police for making all the wrong choices in dealing with the protests.

    Then you have the breakdown of the african American family, and systematic poverty, to which in suck african american communities there is peer pressure of being smart and trying to be successful as "acting white".

    coupled with the dependent class hand out society created by the left you have reactions such as this.


    ultimately though the riots, are to be blamed on the rioters/.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Reports: Ferguson grand jury has made decision

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    As someone that believes this was the right decision, I've already disproven your claim as I (and most) wouldn't take any outrage from the exact same happening with just a twist on the races involved - I and most would still see it as the right conclusion.
    No you have not disproven anything because the point is that white Americans tend value to the life of a white Wall Street executive more than they value the life of a black guy from the Midwest. And if a black cop shot and killed an unarmed white Wall Street executive and there was no trial, despite eyewitness testimony that the executive posed no threat to the black cop, regardless of whether there were accounts to contradict that, there would be outrage from many whites who support the current grand jury decision.

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    Re: Reports: Ferguson grand jury has made decision

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    First off your example of a "white Wall St. Executive" is ridiculous. 1. I doubt that an executive of any color would be strong arm robbing a store for cigarillo's.
    Rich white people have been known to shoplift. It is possible that one could shoplift some Cuban cigars, so it is not a ridiculous example at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    2. I doubt that anyone in that position would be assualting a cop and going for his gun.
    You doubt that, but you don't appear to have any doubt whatsoever about the officers claim that he was assaulted, despite the fact that there is evidence that contradicts the officers claim. Why don't you have any such doubt? Because you believe that assaulting a police officer is the type of thing that black males do.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    As for a reaction from other "white Wall St. Executive's" it is laughable the assertion that they would go nuts and start birning down NYC.
    It is laughable to assert that I said that other white Wall Street executives would start burning down NYC. What I did say is there would be outrage, from many of the whites that now support this indictment.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    As far as analogies go. I rate this one a total fail, and believe that only those mired in victimhood would even think such a thing.
    It is not an analogy, it is a hypothetical scenario that demonstrates that whites place a different value on the life of a white Wall Street executive than they do a black guy like Brown. Therefore your response is total fail.

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    Re: Reports: Ferguson grand jury has made decision

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    No you have not disproven anything because the point is that white Americans tend value to the life of a white Wall Street executive more than they value the life of a black guy from the Midwest. And if a black cop shot and killed an unarmed white Wall Street executive and there was no trial, despite eyewitness testimony that the executive posed no threat to the black cop, regardless of whether there were accounts to contradict that, there would be outrage from many whites who support the current grand jury decision.
    Once again you're relying on a broken strawman argument. Your WS set up doesn't reflect what happened in this situation and there is no way you can find to get your mythical WS exec to do the things Brown was doing.

    You wouldn't have even heard about this if Brown had been white and/or the cop had been black. Only white on black matters to you despite the very real fact that most black folk actually murdered are murdered by other black folk.

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    Re: Reports: Ferguson grand jury has made decision

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Once again you're relying on a broken strawman argument. Your WS set up doesn't reflect what happened in this situation and there is no way you can find to get your mythical WS exec to do the things Brown was doing.

    You wouldn't have even heard about this if Brown had been white and/or the cop had been black. Only white on black matters to you despite the very real fact that most black folk actually murdered are murdered by other black folk.
    Unlike the accusations of another poster in other threads, this is indeed a strawman. That said it is not broken. You are missing the point. There is a difference in the value that whites place on the life of a white Wall Street executive and someone like Brown. As a result of that, they are more willing to believe the officers assertion, despite the existence of evidence that contradicts the officer's claim. Because of the existence of such evidence, there should have at least been a trial, although it is not clear if the evidence is strong enough to result in a conviction.

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    Re: Reports: Ferguson grand jury has made decision

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Unlike the accusations of another poster in other threads, this is indeed a strawman. That said it is not broken. You are missing the point. There is a difference in the value that whites place on the life of a white Wall Street executive and someone like Brown. As a result of that, they are more willing to believe the officers assertion, despite the existence of evidence that contradicts the officer's claim. Because of the existence of such evidence, there should have at least been a trial, although it is not clear if the evidence is strong enough to result in a conviction.
    Yes there's a difference, but it's NOT down to race, it's about behavior and achievement. We value the lives of those who handle our money over those who are strongarm robbers.

    As to the rest of your busted argument, and it is busted by the facts, there is no evidence that contradicts Wilson's testimony and quite a bit that confirms it. Come on down from fantasy land and show us this contradictory evidence you're so sure of.

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    Re: Reports: Ferguson grand jury has made decision

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Yes there's a difference, but it's NOT down to race, it's about behavior and achievement. We value the lives of those who handle our money over those who are strongarm robbers.
    What you fail to understand is that perceptions about what you have designated as behavior and achievement have a strong racial component to them. It is a fact. Even if it were a black Wall Street executive that was slain, whites would be more likely to believe that a black person would assault a police officer that they would a white one.

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    As to the rest of your busted argument, and it is busted by the facts, there is no evidence that contradicts Wilson's testimony and quite a bit that confirms it. Come on down from fantasy land and show us this contradictory evidence you're so sure of.
    The fact that you either do not acknowledge or don't know about the evidence that contradicts the officer's narration of the events proves my point that whites place more value on the life of a white Wall Street executive than they do a black one. Here you do no even acknowledge that the evidence exists, despite the fact that it does.
    Last edited by MildSteel; 11-28-14 at 02:31 PM.

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