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Thread: Hagel Said to Be Stepping Down as Defense Chief Under Pressure[W:56]

  1. #51
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    re: Hagel Said to Be Stepping Down as Defense Chief Under Pressure[W:56]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    A pretense of sesquipedalianism will not save you.

    Oh look, the President engages in a deliberate diabolical distortion meant to create an image of himself as an elitist snob who thinks he is the smartest man in any room he walks into:

    The guy is arrogant. It's part of the core of who he is. He's so arrogant he's the kind of guy who can even admit to being arrogant, but think that that doesn't make him arrogant, it just makes him truthful. I mean, if writing two autobiographies before he even did anything wasn't enough, well, there you are, in his own words and in the words of his staff members (which you were upset about).
    Oh look! A big elitist snob word! It begs the question of what type of person would use such a word when attempting to characterize the President as being an elitist snob. Amazing. So it appears it's more of the former, rather than the later, i. e., the flaw of distortion due to projection, although a combination of both.

    It's quite possible what is going on here is that internal arrogance has blinded someone who claims to have military experience. Robert E. Lee was a brilliant general. Before Gettysburg, James Longstreet had received tremendous praise from Lee. However, at Gettysburg, Longstreet had some significant disagreements with Lee. It is said for three days Lee and Longstreet disagreed over tactics.

    Before sunrise Lee rode to Longstreet's position, near the position known ever since as the Peach Orchard, where he expected to find preparations for the assault underway. When he did not find the men forming, Lee sought Longstreet and an explanation.

    'General,' Longstreet said in welcome, 'I have had my scouts out all night, and I find that you still have an excellent opportunity to move around to the right of Meade's army and maneuver him into attacking us.'

    Lee clearly was angry; he had heard enough. He pointed toward Cemetery Ridge and said, 'The enemy is there, and I am going to strike him.'
    Clearly Longstreet's reservations caused him to delay in implementing Lee's plans. According to some, this reluctance and delay are what caused the Confederates to lose the battle. However, it is true that what Longstreet predicted did indeed come to pass. Regardless, it was Longstreet's duty as general to unhesitatingly fulfill the orders of his superior, although he may have disagreed. It is on this point that Longstreet failed. Although we will never know for sure, it may indeed be that his reluctance cost the Confederates the battle.

    To the point, Secretary Hagel has every right to express misgivings to the President. However, at the end of the day, it is the President who has to provide the ultimate leadership and make the decision. Hagel, by going public with his famous memo, regardless of whether his advice is correct, has given the President good reason to question whether Hagel is the man who will be able to execute the plan of action that the President chooses to implement. HAGEL'S ASSESSMENT, ALTHOUGH ASTUTE, SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN MADE PUBLIC AT THIS TIME. What the President does not need, with regards to such a delicate situation like Syria, is someone, like James Longstreet, who is reluctant, due to misgivings, to implement his strategy. That is not arrogance.

    But projection would make someone who claims to have military experience blind to this, and only see arrogance.

  2. #52
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    re: Hagel Said to Be Stepping Down as Defense Chief Under Pressure[W:56]

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Oh look! A big elitist snob word!
    dude. I was making fun of you. Your post was an attempt to use verbiage in place of logic in an ill-informed, low-brow ad hominem fallacy. Much like the below:

    It begs the question of what type of person would use such a word when attempting to characterize the President as being an elitist snob. Amazing. So it appears it's more of the former, rather than the later, i. e., the flaw of distortion due to projection, although a combination of both.

    It's quite possible what is going on here is that internal arrogance has blinded someone who claims to have military experience. Robert E. Lee was a brilliant general. Before Gettysburg, James Longstreet had received tremendous praise from Lee. However, at Gettysburg, Longstreet had some significant disagreements with Lee. It is said for three days Lee and Longstreet disagreed over tactics.

    Clearly Longstreet's reservations caused him to delay in implementing Lee's plans. According to some, this reluctance and delay are what caused the Confederates to lose the battle. However, it is true that what Longstreet predicted did indeed come to pass. Regardless, it was Longstreet's duty as general to unhesitatingly fulfill the orders of his superior, although he may have disagreed. It is on this point that Longstreet failed. Although we will never know for sure, it may indeed be that his reluctance cost the Confederates the battle.

    To the point, Secretary Hagel has every right to express misgivings to the President. However, at the end of the day, it is the President who has to provide the ultimate leadership and make the decision. Hagel, by going public with his famous memo, regardless of whether his advice is correct, has given the President good reason to question whether Hagel is the man who will be able to execute the plan of action that the President chooses to implement. HAGEL'S ASSESSMENT, ALTHOUGH ASTUTE, SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN MADE PUBLIC AT THIS TIME. What the President does not need, with regards to such a delicate situation like Syria, is someone, like James Longstreet, who is reluctant, due to misgivings, to implement his strategy. That is not arrogance.

    But projection would make someone who claims to have military experience blind to this, and only see arrogance.
    feel free to do a search for my handling of (for example) the McCrystal firing. Or you can desperately attempt to spin to the strawman that - yes - Hagel was off-message in a more truthful direction.

    Mind you, that wasn't because Hagel was disobeying instructions, it was because the White House probably wasn't coordinating with him (Dempsey, too, was "off-message", yet didn't get fired).

    None of it will save you from the fact that according to the White House Staff the President placed "ability to do the job" below "won't look smarter than me".

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    re: Hagel Said to Be Stepping Down as Defense Chief Under Pressure[W:56]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Your post was an attempt to use verbiage in place of logic in an ill-informed, low-brow ad hominem fallacy.
    It is likely arrogance again that is clouding your ability to see the logic of the post. Instead all that you can see is verbiage. But that is ok. The truth is the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    feel free to do a search for my handling of (for example) the McCrystal firing.
    Perhaps it is arrogance that makes you feel that it would be worth the time to search for one of your posts. I see what you are doing right here, this is enough of your nonsense, without having to search for more garbage.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Or you can desperately attempt to spin to the strawman that - yes - Hagel was off-message in a more truthful direction.
    Desperate? For what? Perhaps arrogance is making you feel that you have put me in a situation where I would feel desperate. Seriously, you have no threat that would be sufficient enough to make me feel threatened enough to be desperate, so please stop that nonsense. Also of note, you appear to toss about that strawman rhetoric in response to any serious contention to your assertions. Don't you have anything else to say?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Mind you, that wasn't because Hagel was disobeying instructions, it was because the White House probably wasn't coordinating with him (Dempsey, too, was "off-message", yet didn't get fired).
    I did not say he was disobeying instructions. I said going public with the fact that he had sent the President a memo expressing misgivings about Syria strategy gave the President reason to believe that he was not the right man to execute the strategy. That is a sound judgement on the President's part, because it was certainly not the time to make such a disagreement public. But your self absorption with your intellect will not let you see this, but rather you want to project your arrogance onto the President.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    None of it will save you from the fact that according to the White House Staff the President placed "ability to do the job" below "won't look smarter than me".
    Arrogance is making you falsely believe that you have put me in a position that requires me being saved. Please.

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    re: Hagel Said to Be Stepping Down as Defense Chief Under Pressure[W:56]

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    It is likely arrogance again that is clouding your ability to see the logic of the post
    There was none. That's why ad hominem is a logical fallacy

    Perhaps it is arrogance that makes you feel that it would be worth the time to search for one of your posts.
    Nope. It's laziness. You want to accuse me of not recognizing the need for clear chain of command? That's idiotic, but I'm not going to jump through hoops for you on it.

    I see what you are doing right here, this is enough of your nonsense, without having to search for more garbage.

    Desperate? For what? Perhaps arrogance is making you feel that you have put me in a situation where I would feel desperate. Seriously, you have no threat that would be sufficient enough to make me feel threatened enough to be desperate, so please stop that nonsense. Also of note, you appear to toss about that strawman rhetoric in response to any serious contention to your assertions. Don't you have anything else to say?

    I did not say he was disobeying instructions. I said going public with the fact that he had sent the President a memo expressing misgivings about Syria strategy gave the President reason to believe that he was not the right man to execute the strategy. That is a sound judgement on the President's part, because it was certainly not the time to make such a disagreement public. But your self absorption with your intellect will not let you see this, but rather you want to project your arrogance onto the President.

    Arrogance is making you falsely believe that you have put me in a position that requires me being saved. Please.
    let me know when you have an actual response to the fact that it's not me making that up, but rather coming from the White House Staff and the President himself.
    Last edited by cpwill; 11-28-14 at 11:18 AM.

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    re: Hagel Said to Be Stepping Down as Defense Chief Under Pressure[W:56]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    let me know when you have an actual response to the fact that it's not me making that up, but rather coming from the White House Staff and the President himself.
    You are putting forward here the assertion that it is arrogance that made the President get rid of Hagel, not the White House staff.

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    re: Hagel Said to Be Stepping Down as Defense Chief Under Pressure[W:56]

    Moderator's Warning:
    Hagel Said to Be Stepping Down as Defense Chief Under Pressure[W:56]Stop talking about each other and address the topic, or you'll be kicked out of the thread.

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