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Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police

Re: The next Ferguson ?

cabse5 said:
Do you realize that a 3D printer can produce an effective hand gun that is made out of plastic, or wood or just about any substance you want. That doesn't look like a gun, either, and is just as lethal? What if the cop assumed the dispatcher was correct when said dispatcher reported the gun was a toy but it wasn't? Could the fatality be a dead cop instead? Was the possibly 'lethal' gun pointed at the officer? How much time did the cop have to react? Did the child have any priors? Was the child threatening other children on the playground? Haven't you heard of other incidences of gun fatalities on, for example, school grounds and playgrounds perpetrated by children? Other children in different incidents have killed police officers.

The only thing: could the cop have shot the fake gun out of the hand of the child? Shot the leg? Somehow incapacitate the child to prevent him from shooting the cop with the presumed real gun? Would most cops have the skills to make that shot under those circumstances? Enough time to taser the child?
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You never ever aim for limbs or crap like that seen in movies and on TV. Center mass. Otherwise you are more likely to shoot someone else than the person you were aiming for, especially in a stressful situation.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

cabse5 said:
The only thing: could the cop have shot the fake gun out of the hand of the child? Shot the leg? Somehow incapacitate the child to prevent him from shooting the cop with the presumed real gun? Would most cops have the skills to make that shot under those circumstances? Enough time to taser the child?
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That's all stuff in the movies. You are taught that when you draw your weapon you better be prepared to fire and kill the person you are aiming at. Center mass, no bull**** leg, arm etc. hit. Center mass.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Goshin said:
And most of our toy guns did NOT have orange safety tips either.
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when my late father was a kid (30s) you could buy handguns in the mail and he and his brother used to get beat up old police revolvers that their father would grind off the firing pin on the hammer for use as toy guns. when my father was in prep school (1940-44) he kept a shotgun and a rifle in his dorm room since he was the national HS skeet champion and on the varsity rifle team. no one ever got shot at those schools. As a naval reserve officer 44-48, he attended first Miami (Ohio) under the Naval V-12 program and then Yale. While at Yale, he was an ensign in the navy and sometimes had to be involved in shore patrol after class So he would go to class in uniform (as did others) with a pistol on his belt which, as an officer, he carried. Again, that was not uncommon and no one ever got shot by students who packed firearms
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

nm.......
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

TheNextEra said:
That's all stuff in the movies. You are taught that when you draw your weapon you better be prepared to fire and kill the person you are aiming at. Center mass, no bull**** leg, arm etc. hit. Center mass.
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I can read. The poster before you said the same. Is there anyway, at all, to incapacitate the child without killing the child? Any way? The child (or Mike Brown) is too busy trying to goad or play chicken with the cop to realize their life may be in danger. I'm trying to think for them. Trying to help save a life.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

cabse5 said:
I can read. The poster before you said the same. Is there anyway, at all, to incapacitate the child without killing the child? Any way? The child (or Mike Brown) is too busy trying to goad or play chicken with the cop to realize their life may be in danger. I'm trying to think for them. Trying to help save a life.
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If you are truly trying to "save a life", teach children that when the cops tell you to put your hands up, you don't go grab a gun (fake or not). THAT would have saved the child's life.
 
americanwoman said:
What if they didn't point it at you? You only saw they were carrying it, would you wait until there was an actual threat, like it actually being pointed at you before shooting?
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Yes, I would wait. Having a gun is not a threat, pointing it at people is.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

CRUE CAB said:
Not entirely different though. An airsoft projectile to the eye can cause damage.
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BB guns tend to not look like actual firearms. Airsoft guns usually look like actual firearms. Of course that only means anything to people that know what actual firearms look like.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

nm.......
 
mac said:
Yes, I would wait. Having a gun is not a threat, pointing it at people is.
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When a cop tells you to put your hands up and your next action is grabbing a gun, fake or not, you pretty much are doing suicide by cop.

And I also would be willing to be in your scenario, that you would be a dead cop if the person grabbed a real gun.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

TheNextEra said:
If you are truly trying to "save a life", teach children that when the cops tell you to put your hands up, you don't go grab a gun (fake or not). THAT would have saved the child's life.
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Not sure I'm an effective leader or role model on this subject like, for example, Al Sharpton, the lawyer for Brown's prosecution, or the New Black Panther Party. Wait.. that's the problem, isn't it?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

mac said:
BB guns tend to not look like actual firearms. Airsoft guns usually look like actual firearms. Of course that only means anything to people that know what actual firearms look like.
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Um, yea. Many BB and pellet guns look every bit like a "real" firearm. So much so infact that states with strict gun laws classify BB and pellet guns as "firearms".
I suggest you head on down to like Bass Pro and check them out. Lay some down beside some real guns, then tell me that if I were 10 to 20 feet away you would tell the difference and make a shoot don't shoot decision in a split second.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

cabse5 said:
I can read. The poster before you said the same. Is there anyway, at all, to incapacitate the child without killing the child? Any way? The child (or Mike Brown) is too busy trying to goad or play chicken with the cop to realize their life may be in danger. I'm trying to think for them. Trying to help save a life.
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Remember, all this happens in a split second. You don't have any time to consider, you follow your training.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

cabse5 said:
Not sure I'm an effective leader or role model on this subject like, for example, Al Sharpton, the lawyer for Brown's prosecution, or the New Black Panther Party. Wait.. that's the problem, isn't it?
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Hey I'm just going off your comment that you were "Trying to save a Life", I gave you the way how to. What you do, or in this case don't do, with it is your choice.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Thanks for your input. I'm not being snippy, here.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

cabse5 said:
The only thing: could the cop have shot the fake gun out of the hand of the child?
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Out of the hand? This isn't a Western.
 
CRUE CAB said:
So you would wait for the other person to take aim? Yea, sure.
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Waiting for him to point it at me is far different than waiting for him to take aim. If he were pointing it at someone else I would shoot. If he was not pointing the weapon at anyone, then I wouldn't shoot. :shrug:
 
TheNextEra said:
When a cop tells you to put your hands up and your next action is grabbing a gun, fake or not, you pretty much are doing suicide by cop.

And I also would be willing to be in your scenario, that you would be a dead cop if the person grabbed a real gun.
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That's different than the scenario described. The scenario described was that the subject was simply in possesion of a firearm. I would not shoot unless there were a threat and simply possessing a firearm is not a threat. Taking aggressive action with a firearm in your possession could very well be a threat.
 
mac said:
Waiting for him to point it at me is far different than waiting for him to take aim. If he were pointing it at someone else I would shoot. If he was not pointing the weapon at anyone, then I wouldn't shoot. :shrug:
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Not the training. Not even smart.
 
mac said:
That's different than the scenario described. The scenario described was that the subject was simply in possesion of a firearm. I would not shoot unless there were a threat and simply possessing a firearm is not a threat. Taking aggressive action with a firearm in your possession could very well be a threat.
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In possession and called in because he was pointing it people.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

CRUE CAB said:
Um, yea. Many BB and pellet guns look every bit like a "real" firearm. So much so infact that states with strict gun laws classify BB and pellet guns as "firearms".
I suggest you head on down to like Bass Pro and check them out. Lay some down beside some real guns, then tell me that if I were 10 to 20 feet away you would tell the difference and make a shoot don't shoot decision in a split second.
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Some BB guns do, most do not. Most airsoft guns do. I don't understand why this is arguable.
 
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