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Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police

Re: The next Ferguson ?

brothern said:
American cops have almost free reign to murder whomever they want, and Americans tolerate it because they accept BS talking points about "legitimate" use of force. Meanwhile police in other Western nations murder far, far less of the country's citizens and are held accountable when they do. It isn't just a white/black deal.
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Feel free to move to one of those utopias.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Roadvirus said:
You don't grabbing for something when the cops have their guns unholstered and tell you to put your hands up. Especially if that something is a gun, real or toy.
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Not so familiar with kids I can see...

You probably wouldn't be blaming the cops if the kid was White.
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Take your racist bull**** somewhere were people might actually care....
 
Roadvirus said:
These days, i'm sure there are kids younger then 12 who've committed murder. Age makes almost zero difference in terms of criminality these days.
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"These days"? Kids under twelve have committed murder for thousands of years...
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Hatuey said:
I would have afforded him the benefit of the doubt and tried to get a few words out of the boy before making any decision.
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The cops told him to put up his hands. They gave him a chance. The kid made the wrong choice by going for the gun.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Bodhisattva said:
Take your racist bull**** somewhere were people might actually care....
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Who's racist? Not me!

I make a fair point:
A Black cop in Utah killed an unarmed White kid...no mention.
A White cop kills a Black kid in Missouri....it's all over the f-ing news 24/7 for months.
In a police shooting scenario, the story get's more attention if the person shot was Black.


This just in: Facts are not racist.
 
Roadvirus said:
These days, i'm sure there are kids younger then 12 who've committed murder. Age makes almost zero difference in terms of criminality these days.
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I'm sure. My point however is that if you come across a kid with a gun it's much more likely to be a toy or a BB gun instead of the real thing.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Roadvirus said:
Who's racist? Not me!

I make a fair point:
A Black cop in Utah killed an unarmed White kid...no mention.
A White cop kills a Black kid in Missouri....it's all over the f-ing news 24/7 for months.
In a police shooting scenario, the story get's more attention if the person shot was Black.


This just in: Facts are not racist.
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Can you follow the conversation please? You indicated that I was/could be a racist.

If you didn't mean that then clarify and learn to communicate better. If you did mean it then you have problems...
 
Gaius46 said:
I'm sure. My point however is that if you come across a kid with a gun it's much more likely to be a toy or a BB gun instead of the real thing.
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Common sense eludes many...
 
CRUE CAB said:
I have, and if any of them pulled a gun on me. They would not make it to 13.
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Guess they grow them bigger where you live.

And I agree with you fwiw. A real threat needs to be dealt with. If the kid pointed the gun at the cops We wouldn't be having this discussion but according to what I read that's not the case.

Like I said elsewhere if this was 50 years ago I'm betting the ending would have been different.
 
Gaius46 said:
I'm sure. My point however is that if you come across a kid with a gun it's much more likely to be a toy or a BB gun instead of the real thing.
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Again it's all about location, location, location. I've been to a few places here in the US where that's just a laughable statement. The truth is, even in suburbia these days, you just don't know.
 
Btw, what else do we know about this 12 year old. Was he wearing gang colors? Was he dressed like a hoodlum, or just the area's standard 12 year old? Does he have a record? Is he a gang member? How about his family, gang members? Or just ordinary folks for that area?
 
clownboy said:
Btw, what else do we know about this 12 year old. Was he wearing gang colors? Was he dressed like a hoodlum, or just the area's standard 12 year old? Does he have a record? Is he a gang member? How about his family, gang members? Or just ordinary folks for that area?
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Interesting that none of your above descriptions contain things like:

Good kid
Honor roll
Respectful
Helpful
Kind

Or anything positive at all.
 
clownboy said:
Btw, what else do we know about this 12 year old. Was he wearing gang colors? Was he dressed like a hoodlum, or just the area's standard 12 year old? Does he have a record? Is he a gang member? How about his family, gang members? Or just ordinary folks for that area?
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Why is any of this important?
 
Kobie said:
Why is any of this important?
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We were discussing the reactions of 12 year olds and their likelihood to have a real high velocity gun. Tettsou, same answer.

Also, on a slightly different note, did his parents allow him to have that, to remove the orange safety tip (Airsoft doesn't have to put them on by law but they ship with them installed regardless)? Is this something they considered okay for him to be play out in the public with?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

TheNextEra said:
Well the article I read said he had an airsoft gun. If that is correct he had a BB gun, than that isn't a toy and the cops were even more justified to shoot after he grabbed it.
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airsoft and bb are not the same thing.
 
lifeisshort said:
IMO Ferguson was a good shooting but I am not so sure about this one. It will be interesting to see what facts come out here.



"officers responded to a 911 call about someone waving what the caller described as a “probably fake” gun at a playground.

Deputy Chief Ed Tomba said one officer fired twice after the boy pulled the fake weapon — which was lacking the orange safety indicator usually found on the muzzle — from his waistband but had not pointed it at police. The boy did not make any verbal threats, but grabbed the replica handgun after being told to raise his hands, Deputy Chief Tomba said.

“That’s when the officer fired,” he said.

Read more at Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police - Toledo Blade
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This is the gun Tamir Rice was holding. It looks exactly like a 1911A1 .45 acp, which is a very serious handgun. If someone pointed that at me, I'd shoot them.

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Gaius46 said:
Guess they grow them bigger where you live.

And I agree with you fwiw. A real threat needs to be dealt with. If the kid pointed the gun at the cops We wouldn't be having this discussion but according to what I read that's not the case.

Like I said elsewhere if this was 50 years ago I'm betting the ending would have been different.
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Maybe
 
Tettsuo said:
Interesting that none of your above descriptions contain things like:

Good kid
Honor roll
Respectful
Helpful
Kind

Or anything positive at all.
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I've known "good" kids that have done bad things. Why does that matter?
 
mac said:
This is the gun Tamir Rice was holding. It looks exactly like a 1911A1 .45 acp, which is a very serious handgun. If someone pointed that at me, I'd shoot them.

View attachment 67176416
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What if they didn't point it at you? You only saw they were carrying it, would you wait until there was an actual threat, like it actually being pointed at you before shooting?
 
americanwoman said:
What if they didn't point it at you? You only saw they were carrying it, would you wait until there was an actual threat, like it actually being pointed at you before shooting?
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Nope, just like in the old western movies, the act of reaching to draw the gun is the threat - once it is fully drawn and aimed it is generally too late to react (and live).
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Do you realize that a 3D printer can produce an effective hand gun that is made out of plastic, or wood or just about any substance you want. That doesn't look like a gun, either, and is just as lethal? What if the cop assumed the dispatcher was correct when said dispatcher reported the gun was a toy but it wasn't? Could the fatality be the cop instead? Was the possibly 'lethal' gun pointed at the officer? How much time did the cop have to react? Did the child have any priors? Was the child threatening other children on the playground? Haven't you heard of other incidences of gun fatalities on, for example, school grounds and playgrounds perpetrated by children? Heard of other children in different but similar incidents killing police officers?

The only thing: could the cop have shot the fake gun out of the hand of the child? Shot the leg? Somehow incapacitate the child to prevent him from shooting the cop with the presumed real gun? Would most cops have the skills to make that shot under those circumstances? Enough time to taser the child?

This isn't some crazy game of chicken. It's a life and death situation for cops. Minorities should learn this. Unfortunately, they're too busy attempting to display their anger at cops to think... Dopes.. possibly dead dopes.
 
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