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Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police

Re: The next Ferguson ?

This happened years ago (in which state I can't remember--California maybe?) in which a little boy was shot and killed by an officer because of his realistic toy gun. If I recall correctly, it was ruled a good shot, but the officer struggled to overcome the tragedy.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

clownboy said:
Actually it was a BB gun. Sort of kills your silly semantic tactic there.
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oohh ooohhh!! Squirt gun. What a fun game!


Full Definition of GUN
1a : a piece of ordnance usually with high muzzle velocity and comparatively flat trajectory
b : a portable firearm (as a rifle or handgun)
c : a device that throws a projectile

Gun - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Type in "types of guns" and you get this link...

types of guns - Bing Images
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

X Factor said:
Who? VanceMack? I've always thought he was one of the sharpest guys here.
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Not when he has a stick up his butt...

... and I don't reserve that opinion of people that just ride in half-cocked and act disrespectful for no reason. A sharp person wouldn't do that...
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Hatuey said:
Then you shouldn't discuss the issue either. Move along, apdst. :)
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I'm not one of the folks begrudging these guys. ;)
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

clownboy said:
Okay, it's not against the law in this case to sell these guns without an orange tip in Ohio. I thought it was and I was wrong. Doesn't validate a single one of your arguments here that I was wrong about that.
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Why can't people just say things like this: Yes Hatuey, I made a statement which was false on various levels. I then showed evidence which corrected my false statement and you demonstrated how I was wrong even on a federal level.

You mean BEFORE he reached for that thing you won't admit looks just like a real gun, right? Not what I asked, and your attempt to weasel out of the question is transparent.
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Whether it looks like a real gun or not is irrelevant. There was never a gun, the fact that the witness suggested that before the officers came into contact with the boy leaves questions now:

- Were the police aware of the suggestion by the witness?
- If yes, why did they not afford a 12 year old, in a playground, the benefit of the doubt?
- If no, what measures did they take to remove the weapon from the boy before deciding to respond aggressively?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Bodhisattva said:
Not when he has a stick up his butt...
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Don't tell me, he must be challenging your cop hate rage. This is not exactly your best topic either given your tendency to believe you know what people are about based on their profession.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

apdst said:
I'm not one of the folks begrudging these guys. ;)
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That's the point for you isn't it? If you support the cops' actions you can discuss, if you have questions, then you shouldn't? You're making your seethrough arguments more predictable every day apdst. :)
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Hatuey said:
That's really the thing here isn't it? If it looks like a gun, it is a gun and the actions are justified because the kid is no longer innocent. If a person is honest enough to admit that there was never a gun, and the cops acted to one degree or another precociously, they shot an innocent child and the kid is a victim. That's really the problem here. Reluctance to admit that this was just a kid, in playground, with what in any other setting would have been considered a toy by reasonable adults. If they admit that, they then have to admit that their defense is just meant to make the police feel safe as opposed to police making citizens feel safe.
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Agreed...

what I don't understand is why some defend these brutal police tactics and why the cops themselves don't change them. Why not have one cop with a gun out, perhaps, while a couple of others go to the kid attempting to talk to him. There is no gun visible until they confront him with deadly intent. He probably was just lifting his shirt to show them it was a toy gun. Why are the guys sucking these cops dicks so afraid to admit anything negative?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

X Factor said:
Don't tell me, he must be challenging your cop hate rage. This is not exactly your best topic either given your tendency to believe you know what people are about based on their profession.
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I have no idea what you are talking about. I have cop friends. Orange County Sheriffs, Huntington Beach cops, cops in Flagstaff, my ex-fiancés dad was a cop, etc. They are great people. The minute one shoots a kid with a toy gun though I am going to put them under the ringer and demand a better response from them.

If neither of you can differentiate then that is your problem, in all honesty.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Hatuey said:
Why can't people just say things like this: Yes Hatuey, I made a statement which was false on various levels. I then showed evidence which corrected my false statement and you demonstrated how I was wrong even on a federal level.
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I remember you telling me awhile ago that that Arizona immigration bill was overturned since it didn't define "reasonable suspicion" which was completely false and I showed repeated examples of many statutes that don't define reasonable suspicion and you never once acknowledged you were wrong and I mean this is black and white objective truth. Instead you proclaimed victory and fled the thread. The moral of the story is that you shouldn't expect that which you're not willing to give:
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

apdst said:
I'm not one of the folks begrudging these guys. ;)
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So folks attempting to bring innocent people killed by cops to the forefront in order to stop innocent deaths can't talk about it?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Bodhisattva said:
I hear you. Why can't some of these others? What makes more sense... that the kid was confronted by armed cops with guns pointed at him and he thought that he would make a play of his TOY gun or that they confronted him and he went to show them it was a TOY but didn't do so in the best manner and was shot dead for it by some scared little chicken **** cops (not all cops, just these bitches)?
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Tamir Rice didn't have a "TOY." He had an Airsoft pistol.

If you've ever actually seen one (I've seen many btw) they are routinely designed, manufactured, marketed and sold as faithful reproductions of actual firearms. It's made of metal (as many are). When the orange safety tip is removed, there is absolutely no way to distinguish between an Airsoft pistol and a real pistol until you've got it in your hands.

Another photo of the "toy" in question:

airsoft.jpg


We don't know what actually happened. But I really cannot see how anyone can expect a police officer to definitively know that an Airsoft pistol isn't a real gun.
 
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Re: The next Ferguson ?

Bodhisattva said:
I have no idea what you are talking about. I have cop friends. Orange County Sheriffs, Huntington Beach cops, cops in Flagstaff, my ex-fiancés dad was a cop, etc. They are great people. The minute one shoots a kid with a toy gun though I am going to put them under the ringer and demand a better response from them.

If neither of you can differentiate then that is your problem, in all honesty.
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You have not made blanket claims about what all cops are like? Why are you soft pedaling something you were so boldly proud of before?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Visbek said:
Tamir Rice didn't have a "TOY." He had an Airsoft pistol.

If you've ever actually seen one (I've seen many btw) they are routinely designed, manufactured, marketed and sold as faithful reproductions of actual firearms. It's made of metal (as many are). When the orange safety tip is removed, there is absolutely no way to distinguish between an Airsoft pistol and a real pistol until you've got it in your hands.

Another photo of the "toy" in question:

airsoft.jpg


We don't know what actually happened. But I really cannot see how anyone can expect a police officer to definitively know that an Airsoft piston isn't a real gun.
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Good post. Thanks for the clarification...
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

X Factor said:
You have not made blanket claims about what all cops are like? Why are you soft pedaling something you were so boldly proud of before?
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We are talking about cops shooting innocent people in this thread. When it comes to cops being out to get you on something that applies to almost all cops as that is there job.

See how this works?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Bodhisattva said:
So folks attempting to bring innocent people killed by cops to the forefront in order to stop innocent deaths can't talk about it?
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Remember how you declared positive experiences with police to be irrelevant to the subject of the police and, in fact, declared one really good posters observations/opinions basically meaningless?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Bodhisattva said:
oohh ooohhh!! Squirt gun. What a fun game!


Full Definition of GUN
1a : a piece of ordnance usually with high muzzle velocity and comparatively flat trajectory
b : a portable firearm (as a rifle or handgun)
c : a device that throws a projectile

Gun - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Type in "types of guns" and you get this link...

types of guns - Bing Images
Click to expand...

And this BB gun meets the criteria for the definition you just posted. Or did you stop reading after definition b? Again, you tried to play with semantics and failed. Don't double down, just admit it and move on.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Bodhisattva said:
We are talking about cops shooting innocent people in this thread. When it comes to cops being out to get you on something that applies to almost all cops as that is there job.

See how this works?
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This is a marked difference in how you've presented yourself before when the subject was the police. Why the change? I'll totally pull up some examples since you're acting all wide eyed innocent and knowing not of what I speak. :lol:

Btw, I notice some things don't quite change though with you claiming it's a cops job to "get you" whether folks have actually done something wrong or not.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Bodhisattva said:
We are talking about cops shooting innocent people in this thread. When it comes to cops being out to get you on something that applies to almost all cops as that is there job.

See how this works?
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No, we're not. We're talking about cops shooting a 12 year old who pulled what is designed to look exactly like a high velocity gun on them.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

X Factor said:
Remember how you declared positive experiences with police to be irrelevant to the subject of the police and, in fact, declared one really good posters observations/opinions basically meaningless?
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I don't remember the context...

This is a marked difference in how you've presented yourself before when the subject was the police. Why the change? I'll totally pull up some examples since you're acting all wide eyed innocent and knowing not of what I speak.
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I guess you don't see how it works... I have commented on the negative personal experiences I had with cops like the one that pulled me over for laughing and I have commented on how it is a cops job to find you guilty of something. I think most beat cops (no difference from before) are controlling asshole wannabes. I don't think most are guilty of killing innocent people though... pull up whatever you like to make whatever point you want to though... and to think, I rooted for the 'Boys today. :lol:


Btw, I notice some things don't quite change though with you claiming it's a cops job to "get you" whether folks have actually done something wrong or not.
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Cops are out to find wrong with everybody and the only reason they don't is because there are enough people actually doing wrong to keep them busy... doesn't stop many cops from abusing their power though.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

clownboy said:
No, we're not. We're talking about cops shooting a 12 year old who pulled what is designed to look exactly like a high velocity gun on them.
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Did he "pull it" or did he lift his shirt and show it? Not what the cop says... but what happened.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

clownboy said:
And this BB gun meets the criteria for the definition you just posted. Or did you stop reading after definition b? Again, you tried to play with semantics and failed. Don't double down, just admit it and move on.
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No. I clearly was wrong in thinking it was a toy gun. It was not. It was a BB gun that looks like a real gun. My bad 100%.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Bodhisattva said:
We are talking about cops shooting innocent people in this thread. When it comes to cops being out to get you on something that applies to almost all cops as that is there job.

See how this works?
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Ok here's some of what I was talking about since you seem so confused.

Bodhisattva said:
From the video that is 100% over reaction and brutality from more Gestapo cops acting like assholes...
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Bodhisattva said:
The problem is that cops look for an excuse to stop people and then go out of their way to find additional fault with them and as they do that they go out of their way to intimidate, lie and twist things so that when you don't comply they use force and then all of a sudden they have a great "safety of the cops" argument that so many dupes fall for...
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Bodhisattva said:
Good story... I agree that American cops have changed radically. They are still like that in Britain and New Zealand though... :)
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Bodhisattva said:
I used to respect cops 100%

I haven't respected cops for a long time now and it has nothing to do with them being polite and everything to do with them looking for ways to ticket or arrest people. I am a normal white guy and as you know, funny as hell. I have never had a good interaction with a cop and that is three times getting pulled over and a couple of times on the street. One cop pulled me over for laughing. He thought I was laughing at him as he drove by and made that known. Another illegally searched my car before I really knew what that meant. Another let his dog lurch/charge me when I got to close to him and then tried to grab me as I was just walking by. Even the one interaction I had here in peaceful non-gun New Zealand after my ex-wife attacked me they wrote it up as my fault. I mean, how do you "engineer" it so your car won't start in the hopes that will enrage your ex so much that she will attack you with martial arts in front of our children...

Nope... Cops are total ****ing assholes.

I expect that they will try to help in a crisis situation but I still would not trust them as I am confident that they will try to find fault with you even after saving a life.
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"Cops are total ****ing assholes". Difficult to misconstrue that and that's even actually after acknowledging they would try to help you out in a life or death situation (but the assholes might actually find fault with you so that negates everything).
 
lifeisshort said:
IMO Ferguson was a good shooting
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I'm hoping there's some kind of language barrier here, but while Ferguson may have been justified, there is no conceivable way it was a "good shooting."
 
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