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Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police

Cephus said:
No, innocent kids doing stupid things are what gets innocent kids killed. If that kid hadn't been in that park, with a real-looking gun, waving it around at people to the point that someone had to call 911 on him, he'd still be alive today, wouldn't he? It was the kid's actions that got him killed.
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He's a kid. Give me a break. Being stupid and 12 should not be a death sentence.
 
Gaius46 said:
He's a kid. Give me a break. Being stupid and 12 should not be a death sentence.
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Being 12 and stupid is the standard generally. I assume if the kid is 12, he's not thinking with the wisdom of a 40 year old.
 
Gaius46 said:
He's a kid. Give me a break. Being stupid and 12 should not be a death sentence.
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Maybe you ought to raise your expectations a bit. Kids raised properly are not stupid. It's a personal responsibility thing. Maybe you've heard of it?
 
Tettsuo said:
Being 12 and stupid is the standard generally. I assume if the kid is 12, he's not thinking with the wisdom of a 40 year old.
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Yet the vast majority of 12 year olds are not out waving fake guns at cops, are they?
 
Gaius46 said:
He's a kid. Give me a break. Being stupid and 12 should not be a death sentence.
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Maybe not, but it so often is for humans, all throughout recorded history.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Bodhisattva said:
I can see that you are really trying to make a point here but you are failing... being black is not a profession that gives you legal power to use deadly force over others. Nice try though...



It is spot on point...



Exactly...



Not anymore... cops will blast you and all these guys will pop out of the woodwork and call the kid a stupid idiot and that it was his and his parent's fault...



I didn't say that there was more that the cop could do. I said it wasn't the kids fault... it was the cops fault.
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Its not about being black. Or about being a cop. Its about prejudice. Its about assigning characteristics to an entire race or profession based on the actions of a minority. Its bigoted. Its...what you are doing.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Bodhisattva said:
Most witnesses are very unreliable when it comes to accuracy...
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Unless they say what you fits your bias. Amiright?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

VanceMack said:
Absolutely. Especially when the 'toy' looks like this...
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You know, it seems that the witness which saw this kid pointing his toy at people suggested that it was in fact a toy. Were the officers not privy to this information? Are 12 year olds not supposed to have toy guns? Are 12 year olds with toy guns dangerous?

View attachment 67176346

12 year olds can do some evil ****...

https://www.google.com/#q=12+year+old+shoots+adult
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So then what you're saying is that because some 12 year olds shoot people, then cops are justified in believing this 12 year old was going to kill them. Yes?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Hatuey said:
You know, it seems that the witness which saw this kid pointing his toy at people suggested that it was in fact a toy. Were the officers not privy to this information? Are 12 year olds not supposed to have toy guns? Are 12 year olds with toy guns dangerous?
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He thought it MAY be a toy, but he called 911 because the kid was threatening others with it. The officers probably knew this. No, 12 year olds are not supposed to have realistic toy guns without the orange designator, by law. Yes, 12 year olds waving guns around can be dangerous, how were the officers to know this was a toy gun?

Hatuey said:
So then what you're saying is that because some 12 year olds shoot people, then cops are justified in believing this 12 year old was going to kill them. Yes?
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Yes, that and they had absolutely NO indication this was a toy gun.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

AliHajiSheik said:
I'm coming lake to the discussion but that was really the toy? Wow, that sure looks real to me. What about those orange tips that toys are supposed to have?
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Kid removed/painted over it
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Hatuey said:
You know, it seems that the witness which saw this kid pointing his toy at people suggested that it was in fact a toy. Were the officers not privy to this information? Are 12 year olds not supposed to have toy guns? Are 12 year olds with toy guns dangerous?



So then what you're saying is that because some 12 year olds shoot people, then cops are justified in believing this 12 year old was going to kill them. Yes?
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Thats not at all what he said. I have provided links to the quotes and audio. You should listen to it.

I think ANY police officer responding to ANY situation involving ANY individual with a report of said individual in possession of and pointing the gun at others is justified in shooting said individual if said individual reaches for the weapon. Clear enough?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

AliHajiSheik said:
I'm coming lake to the discussion but that was really the toy? Wow, that sure looks real to me. What about those orange tips that toys are supposed to have?
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Makes you wonder why he would do that, huh? The 'toy' he was warned by his friend NOT to carry at the park, not to shoot at the park, and not to point at others at the park? Yeah...he made stupid decisions. It got him dead. Its probably not as funny to him anymore.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

clownboy said:
He thought it MAY be a toy, but he called 911 because the kid was threatening others with it. The officers probably knew this. No, 12 year olds are not supposed to have realistic toy guns without the orange designator, by law. Yes, 12 year olds waving guns around can be dangerous, how were the officers to know this was a toy gun?
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So the kid deserved to be shot because he pointed a toy gun at people? As far as the orange tip thing, you better tell the law that:

Legal issues in airsoft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Although airsoft guns in the United States are generally sold with a 6mm (0.24in.) or longer orange tip on the barrel in order to distinguish them from real firearms, this is not required by federal law.

..This language clearly exempts airsoft guns from these requirements, placing them in the same category as bb-guns, pellet, air, and paintball, none of which are conventionally sold or used with an orange tip, and many of which bear as much resemblance to real firearms as airsoft guns do.
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Yes, that and they had absolutely NO indication this was a toy gun.
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Except the witness who said it looked like a toy gun.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

VanceMack said:
Thats not at all what he said. I have provided links to the quotes and audio. You should listen to it.

I think ANY police officer responding to ANY situation involving ANY individual with a report of said individual in possession of and pointing the gun at others is justified in shooting said individual if said individual reaches for the weapon. Clear enough?
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So he didn't suggest it was a toy by saying 'It's probably fake'?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

VanceMack said:
The 911 caller did not say it "looked like" a toy gun. You obviously did not listen to his call or read what he actually said.
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What else can one infer when a person suggest that something which looks like a gun is fake? Are we to infer that he think it's not fake and not a toy?
 
Cephus said:
Maybe you ought to raise your expectations a bit. Kids raised properly are not stupid. It's a personal responsibility thing. Maybe you've heard of it?
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Every properly raised 12 year does not act like a perfect little angel all the time. You ever been around them?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Hatuey said:
So he didn't suggest it was a toy by saying 'It's probably fake'?
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Listen to his call.

OBVIOUSLY he couldnt tell if it was or wasnt a toy gun. See...THATS why he called 911 in the first place.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Hatuey said:
So the kid deserved to be shot because he pointed a toy gun at people? As far as the orange tip thing, you better tell the law that:

Legal issues in airsoft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Actually several states have already closed that airsoft loophole, in fact because of this incident looks like Ohio will soon follow suit.

In wake of Cleveland boy's shooting death, Ohio lawmaker to introduce legislation requiring that BB guns, air guns be brightly colored | cleveland.com

Hatuey said:
Except the witness who said it looked like a toy gun.
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Then they are blind or lying. You've seen the "toy" up close, and they saw it from farther away. Be honest with yourself and us, could you tell the difference?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

VanceMack said:
Listen to his call.

OBVIOUSLY he couldnt tell if it was or wasnt a toy gun. See...THATS why he called 911 in the first place.
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So, alright then we've established that the witnesses who called it all in realized there was a possibility that it was fake and he was wrong. The police arrived at a playground, with kids playing and encountered this 12 year old. What about that scenario seemed out of place? Do kids not bring toy guns to a playground? Did they see the gun being pulled out and quickly determined it wasn't real? What specifically warranted them to use aggressive force towards someone who wasn't being verbal or aggressive towards them?
 
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