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Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police

Re: The next Ferguson ?

American said:
Do you think his parents contemplated such a situation? I think almost no parents would. The kid did something stupid, no one has argued that. Question is, did the cop have to shoot him?
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Given the situation as described, yes, the cop had to shoot him. He made a potentially life threatening move after being told to raise his hands. Had he complied, he'd still be alive. He failed to comply. It's all his fault he's dead.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Cephus said:
Given the situation as described, yes, the cop had to shoot him. He made a potentially life threatening move after being told to raise his hands. Had he complied, he'd still be alive. He failed to comply. It's all his fault he's dead.
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We don't hold 12 year olds to the same standards as adults under the law for a reason.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

American said:
We don't hold 12 year olds to the same standards as adults under the law for a reason.
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Nor do we expect police officers to accept someone pointing something that looks exactly like a gun at them.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Pleased? No. Happy? No. Satisfied that the actions of the officer as I know it? Yes. Does an investigation from a independent agency need to be done? Yes.
Does that fill in all your blanks?
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Yes, that's fair enough.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

American said:
We don't hold 12 year olds to the same standards as adults under the law for a reason.
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When it comes to potentially hazardous situations, damn straight we do. A 12-year old carrying a gun is as dangerous as a 30-year old carrying a gun. Try again.
 
I seriously doubt the kid "went for his gun". That's illogical. The kid obviously knew the gun was not real and was not going for his "gun" to blow the cops away.

I don't believe any of this crap.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Cephus said:
When it comes to potentially hazardous situations, damn straight we do. A 12-year old carrying a gun is as dangerous as a 30-year old carrying a gun. Try again.
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That's a cute little ending you put on there. :roll:
 
Tettsuo said:
I seriously doubt the kid "went for his gun". That's illogical. The kid obviously knew the gun was not real and was not going for his "gun" to blow the cops away.

I don't believe any of this crap.
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Oh yes he was, the murdering little so and so, just ask Cephus.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Winchester said:
What's fail is today's societal fear and police responses to kids playing on playgrounds. Jesus we used to bring cap guns to the school playground all the time to play cops and robbers. No one called the police and no kids got shot.
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AGREED!

Same here... we used to go into a big wooded area behind houses dressed in camo and using very real looking rifles and such to have bb gun wars... climbing over people's fences and such to get there. No cops. Nothing. We got some nasty looks if the people saw us but that was it.
 
Tettsuo said:
I seriously doubt the kid "went for his gun". That's illogical. The kid obviously knew the gun was not real and was not going for his "gun" to blow the cops away.

I don't believe any of this crap.
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Cops pull me over and the first thing I do is go for my gun even when I don't have one. It is 100% logical. :roll:
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Grant said:
It won't be an issue if it is Black killing Black. That gets a pass.
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It is still gonna be Whitey's fault... it is the "white system" that got the kid killed.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

VanceMack said:
I heard the audio. The 911 caller did not say it APPEARED to be fake. What he said was I dont know...its probably fake. He described it as a pistol and was concerned enough about the incident (appearance of the weapon, behavior of the 12 year old, etc) to call 911. When the police arrived on scene, they knew the basics...young kid pointing a pistol at people. They told him to raise his hands. Instead of raising his hands, he is reported to have gone for the toy gun. If that is what happened, then its tragic, but it is a good shoot.
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Shooting a kid with a toy gun is never "a good shoot". That entire term is idiotic in the first place (not you, the term).

Unless there is something other than the cops word that he has, "gone for the gun" I don't believe it for a second...
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Bodhisattva said:
Shooting a kid with a toy gun is never "a good shoot". That entire term is idiotic in the first place (not you, the term).

Unless there is something other than the cops word that he has, "gone for the gun" I don't believe it for a second...
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If you would prefer to play with words I suppose cops could use a term like legit shoot as opposed to 'good shoot'. I'm just not all that delicate when it comes to things.

You can choose to believe what you want. You find it more realistic that a cop rolled up to a 12 year old and blasted him for no good reason other than the sheer joy of killing a kid as opposed to the kid going for the gun for whatever reason......meh.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

VanceMack said:
If you would prefer to play with words I suppose cops could use a term like legit shoot as opposed to 'good shoot'. I'm just not all that delicate when it comes to things.

You can choose to believe what you want. You find it more realistic that a cop rolled up to a 12 year old and blasted him for no good reason other than the sheer joy of killing a kid as opposed to the kid going for the gun for whatever reason......meh.
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I believe that the cop probably made a mistake and is looking to cover it up...
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

VanceMack said:
If you would prefer to play with words I suppose cops could use a term like legit shoot as opposed to 'good shoot'. I'm just not all that delicate when it comes to things.

You can choose to believe what you want. You find it more realistic that a cop rolled up to a 12 year old and blasted him for no good reason other than the sheer joy of killing a kid as opposed to the kid going for the gun for whatever reason......meh.
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Do you believe the 12 year old boy drew on the cop with a BB gun?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Tettsuo said:
Do you believe the 12 year old boy drew on the cop with a BB gun?
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No idea. I wasnt there. Sounds like the kid wasnt the brightest bulb in the box. Until we know otherwise, I'll wait and see rather than play Roger Rabbit and just "REFUSE to see it. I DONT believe it. I WONT believe it."

There were plenty of witnesses at the park. We'll find out soon enough.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Bodhisattva said:
I believe that the cop probably made a mistake and is looking to cover it up...
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Funny you 'believe' something that you havent the first clue about. But all good, man. 'Believe' what you want.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

VanceMack said:
Funny you 'believe' something that you havent the first clue about. But all good, man. 'Believe' what you want.
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... that is just a saying and you can play with it all you like little buddy. What probably happened is that he made a mistake and is attempting to cover it up. Kids don't go for toy guns when presented with cops with real guns unless they have a mental disorder. The entire notion is retarded. Sure, it could have happened but the chances are so remote as to make it impossible.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

VanceMack said:
No idea. I wasnt there. Sounds like the kid wasnt the brightest bulb in the box. Until we know otherwise, I'll wait and see rather than play Roger Rabbit and just "REFUSE to see it. I DONT believe it. I WONT believe it."

There were plenty of witnesses at the park. We'll find out soon enough.
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If he's not mentally handicapped, I'm going to call BS on it.

This isn't the first time cops straight up lied or seriously stretched the truth about a bad shooting.

 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Tettsuo said:
Do you believe the 12 year old boy drew on the cop with a BB gun?
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Well if we look at the information available to us

"There's a guy in there with a pistol, you know, it's probably fake, but he's like pointing it at everybody," the caller said.
"He's sitting on a swing right now, but he's pulling it in and out of his pants and pointing it at people," the caller said. "He's probably a juvenile, you know?"
Police said it's not clear if the responding officers received the information about the age of the suspect or the gun being "probably fake."
When the two officers arrived, the boy did not point the air gun at them or otherwise threaten them, Tomba told reporters Sunday.
But he did reach for the air gun, Tomba said.
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It seems that the caller informed the authority that the gun was likely fake, that the perpetrator was a juvenile, though they do not know if that information was given to the responding officers (break down 1). Also the reports say that he reached for his toy gun but had never threatened or pointed it at the cops (break down 2). I do think that if we didn't teach our cops to shoot first and ask questions later that this, and some earlier similar incidents, could have been concluded without loss of life.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Tettsuo said:
If he's not mentally handicapped, I'm going to call BS on it.

This isn't the first time cops straight up lied or seriously stretched the truth about a bad shooting.

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Holy **** that was bad. They just up and shot the kid... ****ing assholes.
 
Tettsuo said:
I seriously doubt the kid "went for his gun". That's illogical. The kid obviously knew the gun was not real and was not going for his "gun" to blow the cops away.

I don't believe any of this crap.
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So, what went down all knowing?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Tettsuo said:
Do you believe the 12 year old boy drew on the cop with a BB gun?
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It is not a matter of what anybody on this forum believes. We and those who will anaylyze the situation over the next months have the advantage of tapes to be watched in slow motion over and over, witness interviews, and other evidence.

What matters is what the responding police thought at that particular instant.

What a few of the past few incidents do indicate is that the unintended consequence of the red tipped toy guns is that it seems to backfire in too many cases.

Along with enabling police to ascertain that an unaltered toy is definitely a toy. (that too might be a problem if I painted the tip of my .44 orange before taking it out on a cop killing mission). But now the presumption is that any toy without the red tip is not a toy.

As for the boy in this case. If you are old enough and smart enough to remove the orange from your toy before setting out to impress your friends, then you ought to be smart enough to know that it might be a bad idea.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Bodhisattva said:
... that is just a saying and you can play with it all you like little buddy. What probably happened is that he made a mistake and is attempting to cover it up. Kids don't go for toy guns when presented with cops with real guns unless they have a mental disorder. The entire notion is retarded. Sure, it could have happened but the chances are so remote as to make it impossible.
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You dont know dammit about what 'kids do', especially THIS PARTICULAR kid when confronted with something he knew he was doing that was wrong. There are far too many cases where people in general do stupid things when confronted. Who knows...maybe he was reaching for it to throw it away. But presuming and believing the worst about a law enfrcement officer in the face of a confrontation with a kid you KNOW has demonstrated some really stupid choices...well...thats just projecting your won personal bias into a belief. Again...all good...but it doesnt make much sense.
 
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