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Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police

Re: The next Ferguson ?

ttwtt78640 said:
Either way, drawing a gun from your waistband exposes the tip far too late and is a very, very bad idea after a LEO tells you to raise your hands.
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Yep, agree with you there. Unfortunately the stupidity of the 12 year old cost him his life.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

American said:
How many 12 year olds don't do stupid things. A 300# 19 year old thug did something stupid and got killed for it. So how smart should a 12 year old be? I'll wait and see, but seems we have a pattern of quick on the draw no matter what going on.
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By the time I was 12, I had been through an NRA safety course and had my own real guns.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

CRUE CAB said:
I blame the parents more than the kid.
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I blame both. A 12 year old doesn't know you shouldn't grab for something while the police tell you to put your hands up?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Goshin said:
And most of our toy guns did NOT have orange safety tips either.
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I don't remember any except the machine gun that had the moving red tip to simulate fire. That wasn't there for safety.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

CRUE CAB said:
By the time I was 12, I had been through an NRA safety course and had my own real guns.
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Yep, me too. We even had a rifle safety course in 5th grade.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Goshin said:
Airsoft isn't going to hurt anyone, unless maybe you hit them in the eye.


Granted, I've seen airsoft guns hard to tell from the real deal.


It's understandable... but it is a shame this happened.
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I'm not saying an airsoft would, I'm saying that the police thought it was a REAL weapon and reacted as such.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

CRUE CAB said:
By the time I was 12, I had been through an NRA safety course and had my own real guns.
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Great! So this kid didn't and apparently had a fake gun.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

VanceMack said:
I heard the audio. The 911 caller did not say it APPEARED to be fake. What he said was I dont know...its probably fake. He described it as a pistol and was concerned enough about the incident (appearance of the weapon, behavior of the 12 year old, etc) to call 911. When the police arrived on scene, they knew the basics...young kid pointing a pistol at people. They told him to raise his hands. Instead of raising his hands, he is reported to have gone for the toy gun. If that is what happened, then its tragic, but it is a good shoot.
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I probably would not have called 911, at least not right away. I probably would have wandered over, seeming aimless, and took a closer look. Pretty sure from arm's length I could get a good idea whether it was a fake gun or real gun, if nothing else from how he held it (real guns are much heavier). Might have struck up a conversation, asked him "what ya got there kid, airsoft gun?"

But that's me, I'm like that. :shrug:
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

TheNextEra said:
Yep, agree with you there. Unfortunately the stupidity of the 12 year old cost him his life.
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The question is whether it will also cost many other folks their lives/property due to race riots. The media seem far too quick to egg that nonsense on. This has NOTHING to due with race yet that is the theme (theory? implication?) put forth by the media.
 
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Re: The next Ferguson ?

TheNextEra said:
I blame both. A 12 year old doesn't know you shouldn't grab for something while the police tell you to put your hands up?
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I'll bet you a lot of parents, probably most, have not specifically told their 12yo "If the police tell you to put your hands up and you do anything other than that, they will shoot you dead."


I'm a CAREFUL parent, and constantly teaching my son real-world-practical stuff from when he could walk.... and I'm not positive whether I had that conversation with him before he was 12.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Goshin said:
I probably would not have called 911, at least not right away. I probably would have wandered over, seeming aimless, and took a closer look. Pretty sure from arm's length I could get a good idea whether it was a fake gun or real gun, if nothing else from how he held it (real guns are much heavier). Might have struck up a conversation, asked him "what ya got there kid, airsoft gun?"

But that's me, I'm like that. :shrug:
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I'm beginning to think there are some LEO's out there that don't think their careers are complete unless they've dropped a perp.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

American said:
I'm beginning to think there are some LEO's out there that don't think their careers are complete unless they've dropped a perp.
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Like I said earlier. Cop hate. You have it.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

VanceMack said:
I heard the audio. The 911 caller did not say it APPEARED to be fake. What he said was I dont know...its probably fake. He described it as a pistol and was concerned enough about the incident (appearance of the weapon, behavior of the 12 year old, etc) to call 911. When the police arrived on scene, they knew the basics...young kid pointing a pistol at people. They told him to raise his hands. Instead of raising his hands, he is reported to have gone for the toy gun. If that is what happened, then its tragic, but it is a good shoot.
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Thank you, I kind of looked for the audio and didn't find it.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

CRUE CAB said:
Like I said earlier. Cop hate. You have it.
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Sure that's it, not that I expect cops to use some ****ing logic.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

American said:
Sure that's it, not that I expect cops to use some ****ing logic.
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What logic is that Officer American? Please tell me how you would feel being challenged by someone with a very realistic gun. That in your mind may very well be a real gun. Knowing that you would like to go home to your family at the end of your shift.
Explain please.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Goshin said:
I probably would not have called 911, at least not right away. I probably would have wandered over, seeming aimless, and took a closer look. Pretty sure from arm's length I could get a good idea whether it was a fake gun or real gun, if nothing else from how he held it (real guns are much heavier). Might have struck up a conversation, asked him "what ya got there kid, airsoft gun?"

But that's me, I'm like that. :shrug:
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Sure. The caller could have done things differently. He even sounded almost reluctant calling it in. My point is about the cops. I've been on the pointy end of the stick in situations similar to this (never as a cop). Its unrealistic to expect law enforcement to wait until after a shot is fired to decide to respond. Report of a gun, something tucked into a waistband that looked like a gun, kid ignores commands to hold his hands up and instead reaches for the gun. If it went down as reported...sorry...kids dead because he made a stupid decision.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

American said:
Sure that's it, not that I expect cops to use some ****ing logic.
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Logic? Tell me, you as a LEO tell a suspect to put their hands up and they go and grab what you think is a firearm. Tell me what "logic" dictates?
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

CRUE CAB said:
What logic is that Officer American? Please tell me how you would feel being challenged by someone with a very realistic gun. That in your mind may very well be a real gun. Knowing that you would like to go home to your family at the end of your shift.
Explain please.
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I was an officer.

If it was an adult, and I had any doubt, I'd shoot.

A 12yo, I'd try to give the benefit of the doubt as long as possible... yes even if it meant taking a greater risk that I might get shot.



Call me crazy, but I would have hated myself forever if I'd shot a 12yo with a toy gun. Even if he did act stupid.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

What kind of moron calls 911 to report a kid playing with what he believes to be a toy? I hope that dip**** can sleep at night. I know I wouldn't be able to.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Goshin said:
I was an officer.

If it was an adult, and I had any doubt, I'd shoot.

A 12yo, I'd try to give the benefit of the doubt as long as possible... yes even if it meant taking a greater risk that I might get shot.



Call me crazy, but I would have hated myself forever if I'd shot a 12yo with a toy gun. Even if he did act stupid.
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I would rather hate my self and be alive to provide for my family than be dead.
Would it suck? Yes. Would I let it ruin my life? No.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

TheNextEra said:
Logic? Tell me, you as a LEO tell a suspect to put their hands up and they go and grab what you think is a firearm. Tell me what "logic" dictates?
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How many times was the kid asked? What did the kid say? The dispatcher could be culpable in this too for failing to relay what the caller said.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Goshin said:
I was an officer.

If it was an adult, and I had any doubt, I'd shoot.

A 12yo, I'd try to give the benefit of the doubt as long as possible... yes even if it meant taking a greater risk that I might get shot.



Call me crazy, but I would have hated myself forever if I'd shot a 12yo with a toy gun. Even if he did act stupid.
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You were the kind of good cop I respect. I don't find you crazy at all, more like the kind of people we do need as police.
 
Re: The next Ferguson ?

Winchester said:
What's fail is today's societal fear and police responses to kids playing on playgrounds. Jesus we used to bring cap guns to the school playground all the time to play cops and robbers. No one called the police and no kids got shot.
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That was before gun control and an almost daily media dose of gang related gun violence making many freak out upon simply seeing a person (of any age or race) with a gun.
 
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