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Thread: Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police

  1. #81
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    Re: The next Ferguson ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winchester View Post
    So they say. I don't believe it.
    That particular bit of data will be on the tape. Both the call and the dispatch. Whether or not it will make any difference to the race baiters remains to be seen.

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    Re: The next Ferguson ?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    So the implication it's the parents' fault, not the kid.
    Yep. Had it been a real gun, and he hurt someone with it. Its the parents fault as well.

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    Re: Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    They have a job that innately puts them into dangerous situations which may threaten their lives. This is already known. It is not excuse for "shoot first, ask questions later". The police are to SERVE the People, not themselves and not the government. Of course it isn't acceptable for citizens to shoot at cops, those who do will be arrested and punished. But that does not mean that cops get to become roaming death squads. That's stupid.
    They didn't just shoot first and ask later. In fact they ordered the kid to put his hands up. The kid ignored that warning and grabbed the gun. THAT was stupid.

    At what point do you "allow" the cop to fire? After a suspect fires at the cop and possibly kills him?

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    Re: Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    They didn't just shoot first and ask later. In fact they ordered the kid to put his hands up. The kid ignored that warning and grabbed the gun. THAT was stupid.

    At what point do you "allow" the cop to fire? After a suspect fires at the cop and possibly kills him?
    That's certainly a telling data point that would allow one to reasonably return fire. Probably shouldn't be shooting little kids with toys, you apparently are OK with that. But given the frequency of this act, it would appear that what we teach cops as threat assessment is severely limited. Cops are government, government is restricted. We cannot allow this continued "shoot first, ask questions later" policy to keep going forward. Too many innocent people are being killed by the police.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That's certainly a telling data point that would allow one to reasonably return fire. Probably shouldn't be shooting little kids with toys, you apparently are OK with that. But given the frequency of this act, it would appear that what we teach cops as threat assessment is severely limited. Cops are government, government is restricted. We cannot allow this continued "shoot first, ask questions later" policy to keep going forward. Too many innocent people are being killed by the police.
    Again, at what point do you allow a cop to fire then? You haven't answered. You are quick with the rhetoric, but not quick with answering a simple question.

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    Re: Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Again, at what point do you allow a cop to fire then? You haven't answered. You are quick with the rhetoric, but not quick with answering a simple question.
    That point would vary upon situation. You don't get a "one size fits all" response. In this case, you may have to wait till the kids shoots to fire back with a firearm. And until that point, you may have to use less-than-lethal options such as a tazer. If there were hostages, the situation would change. if the cops new the gun was real, the situation would change.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: The next Ferguson ?

    Quote Originally Posted by timslash View Post
    1 - it was just a kid.
    2 - it was BLACK kid (racist policeman, huh?)
    In my childhood, we were often playing in "civil war" with toy guns, and, you will not believe, policemen watched and laughed, keyword - laugh. They did not shot us, did not shout "HANDS UP, NOW!" They just laughed...
    What race is the police officer?

    The 12 year old knew better. He had several friends tell him what he was doing was stupid, could hurt others, and would lead to him getting in trouble with the cops.

    Unless the kid was mentally retarded, he knew better than to go for a gun (albeit a BB gun) when told by the police to raise his hands. If he was retarded, his friends and family did him a disservice by not taking his gun from him.

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    Re: Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That point would vary upon situation. You don't get a "one size fits all" response. In this case, you may have to wait till the kids shoots to fire back with a firearm. And until that point, you may have to use less-than-lethal options such as a tazer. If there were hostages, the situation would change. if the cops new the gun was real, the situation would change.
    You haven't answered ANY situation. So let's be specific, in a scenario like this where the kid had a real gun are you seriously saying that the cop should only open fire AFTER he is shot or dead?

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    Re: Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    You haven't answered ANY situation. So let's be specific, in a scenario like this where the kid had a real gun are you seriously saying that the cop should only open fire AFTER he is shot or dead?
    I have answered, you just need to learn to read. Lethal weapon response in this situation would likely necessitate being shot at or some other was to assess the authenticity of the weapon, but then again that would have to be decided by a panel of more experienced individuals than myself. Less-than-lethal is authorized. Tazer, bean bags, flash bang, etc. There are plenty of tools available to the authority that isn't just bullets.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Lethal weapon response in this situation would likely necessitate being shot at or some other was to assess the authenticity of the weapon, but then again that would have to be decided by a panel of more experienced individuals than myself. Less-than-lethal is authorized. Tazer, bean bags, flash bang, etc. There are plenty of tools available to the authority that isn't just bullets.
    So your solution is dead cop then. Got it.

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