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Thread: Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police

  1. #441
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    Re: The next Ferguson ?

    When did the police see the tip of the BB gun? Why does it matter if the tip was removed if the tip was never seen by the police?
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
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  2. #442
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    Re: The next Ferguson ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post


    Again, where was the time for the boy to process what's happening? They rolled up and shot him dead.
    They rolled up on a scene were it was reported there was a man with a gun pointing it at people. Rather than park a few hundred miles away and risk having a potentially dangerous man with a gun on the loose, they pulled up to the gazebo. While they were pulling up to the gazebo, the guy got up, walked towards then, and pulled up his shirt in what sure looks like an attempt to reach for the weapon that they were told he had. Quick set of circumstance...no doubt.

    You say 'processing' like he didnt know already that what he was doing was dangerous. His fried had told him what he was doing was stupid and could get him shot. His friend was right.

  3. #443
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    Re: The next Ferguson ?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    They rolled up on a scene were it was reported there was a man with a gun pointing it at people. Rather than park a few hundred miles away and risk having a potentially dangerous man with a gun on the loose, they pulled up to the gazebo. While they were pulling up to the gazebo, the guy got up, walked towards then, and pulled up his shirt in what sure looks like an attempt to reach for the weapon that they were told he had. Quick set of circumstance...no doubt.

    You say 'processing' like he didnt know already that what he was doing was dangerous. His fried had told him what he was doing was stupid and could get him shot. His friend was right.
    I don't disagree that removing the orange tip was dangerous. That's not what I asked. The police never gave the boy a chance to do anything other than die. Also, they never saw the tip of the gun because he never withdrew it.

    So, all of the talk about the orange tip is meaningless because the cop never saw the tip in the first place. He never withdrew the toy.
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
    http://soulinblackandwhite.blogspot.com/

  4. #444
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    Re: The next Ferguson ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    I don't disagree that removing the orange tip was dangerous. That's not what I asked. The police never gave the boy a chance to do anything other than die. Also, they never saw the tip of the gun because he never withdrew it.

    So, all of the talk about the orange tip is meaningless because the cop never saw the tip in the first place. He never withdrew the toy.
    Yeah. Cops aren't going to do ANYTHING else when they roll up on a scene where there is a man reported to have a gun and pointing at people other than shoot him when that person goes for what they have been told is a gun. Thats how that scenario is SUPPOSED to play out.

    The kid was intentionally living the thug life pointing his gun at people trying to scare them. Theres a good news bad news response here. Good news is...it worked. Bad news is......it worked.

  5. #445
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    Re: The next Ferguson ?

    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisshort View Post
    You hear as you want to hear

    no killing is good
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

  6. #446
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    Re: The next Ferguson ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    no killing is good
    Not good but justifiable

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    Re: The next Ferguson ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    You might be surprised to know that the Police Union have him in their sights due to a recent discipline action taken by the Chief against the officer that shot a mentally challenged homeless man, in a park, for trying to assault him. Don't know all the details but I am hearing very valid arguments from both sides.

    Therein lies another problem. Back to the "Us and Them," perception discussed earlier. We are not the Taliban. They are not Seal Team 6. They instinctively "circle the wagons," when one of their own is on the carpet. Right or wrong. I understand why. They are, after all, a union. Their obligation is to the employee and not the management. But it would seem to me that a collective unit of good cops, as I believe them most to be, would work harder than anyone to rid the bad cops from their ranks. And I'm sure there's a unit for that as well. The public perception is that the line of the law goes from the Meter Maid, through the street cop, to the department heads, through the district's prosecution's office all the way to the bench. It's hard to trust that, this connected stream of professionals, or any stream of professionals for that matter, who instinctively "circle the wagons," could fairly approach such sensitive matters, concerning justice against their own connected stream, from the ground up, could render any punitive actions with any balance of fairness.

    As mentioned earlier, it is automatically assumed that a police officer's word is always considered to be above your's or mine.

    We need to work on this "Us and Them" perception. It's going to take equal effort from "us," and "them," to even hope that would work.
    The problem with the anti-police rhetoric is the cases that are used to promote 'the cause'.
    In Ferguson Mo, the actual witness testimony and forensic evidence supports the officer account that Mike Brown, a man that CLEALRY demonstrated violent tendencies less than 5 minutes before the incident with the cop was the aggreessor, attacked the cop, and ended up dying.

    In Cleveland, a 12 year old used a gun to terrorize people at a park. He thought it was funny. His actions caused a concerned citizen to phone it in to the police. When the police arrived, the 12 year old can quite clearly be seen getting up, walking towards the cops, and reaching into his waistband for what the cops believed to be a gun (and in fact WAS A GUN...just not the 45 caliber weapon it was intended to look like). In both of these recent high profile cases, the evidence PROVES there is NOTHING inappropriate with the police response. So what exactly is the dialogue that needs to occur? Cops should not kill innocent people or stupid people should stop creating situations that cause a cop or any other reasonable citizen to act? We are having the wrong conversation.

    Which is NOT to say there arent abuses. When the abuses occur, they should be identified. But when the protests and riots and assorted foolishness occurs over what is a legitimate police act? Well...its hard to hear the other concerns.

  8. #448
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    Re: The next Ferguson ?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Yeah. Cops aren't going to do ANYTHING else when they roll up on a scene where there is a man reported to have a gun and pointing at people other than shoot him when that person goes for what they have been told is a gun. Thats how that scenario is SUPPOSED to play out.

    The kid was intentionally living the thug life pointing his gun at people trying to scare them. Theres a good news bad news response here. Good news is...it worked. Bad news is......it worked.
    Can you back that with anything? You denigrate a child as you bow down to violent authority. Shameful post.

  9. #449
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    Re: The next Ferguson ?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The problem with the anti-police rhetoric is the cases that are used to promote 'the cause'.
    In Ferguson Mo, the actual witness testimony and forensic evidence supports the officer account that Mike Brown, a man that CLEALRY demonstrated violent tendencies less than 5 minutes before the incident with the cop was the aggreessor, attacked the cop, and ended up dying.

    In Cleveland, a 12 year old used a gun to terrorize people at a park. He thought it was funny. His actions caused a concerned citizen to phone it in to the police. When the police arrived, the 12 year old can quite clearly be seen getting up, walking towards the cops, and reaching into his waistband for what the cops believed to be a gun (and in fact WAS A GUN...just not the 45 caliber weapon it was intended to look like). In both of these recent high profile cases, the evidence PROVES there is NOTHING inappropriate with the police response. So what exactly is the dialogue that needs to occur? Cops should not kill innocent people or stupid people should stop creating situations that cause a cop or any other reasonable citizen to act? We are having the wrong conversation.

    Which is NOT to say there arent abuses. When the abuses occur, they should be identified. But when the protests and riots and assorted foolishness occurs over what is a legitimate police act? Well...its hard to hear the other concerns.
    The evidence in this case clearly shows the police bringing all of the drama and all of the danger with them to that crime scene. Those cops belong in jail.

  10. #450
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    Re: The next Ferguson ?

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    Can you back that with anything? You denigrate a child as you bow down to violent authority. Shameful post.
    Of course I can. His friend knew what he was doing, told him to stop, warned him that it would cause a problem. Witnesses said he was intentionally pointing the weapon at others to scare them.

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