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Thread: Cleveland boy with fake pistol killed by police

  1. #411
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    Re: The next Ferguson ?

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    If this is police protocol, then that alone is cause for protest. I want to know that police departments are responding to this rash of shootings with new protocols and new prevention measures. This "the cops did nothing wrong" that some are taking is horribly irresponsible.

    Let's keep in mind too that carrying a registered firearm is LEGAL in the state of Ohio. We need to change this confrontational approach to policing.
    Police have a duty to protect the public and themselves, but they also have a reasonable responsibility to protect the people they are responding to. Sometimes those people are good people with families, grandmothers and children.
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    Re: The next Ferguson ?

    We got some of that police shooting stuff going on here in Milwaukee too. The Police Chief pretty much expresses many of my views as well.

    This is sad. It's beyond sad. I heart just melts when I think of the loss and suffrage.

    There are so many "what-if's," that can be conceived when your watching Sunday's game tapes on Monday. I bet those cops will be pondering into their old age, "what if I had done this instead." I'm just glad I don't have their job.

    But don't get me wrong. Bad cops piss me off too. But I also happen to know that good cops get pissed off at bad cops even more than I do. Baby/Bathwater.

    People are quick to fall on the side away from authority. I am guilty of that myself. I have posted a few "bad cop on video," posts myself.

    But sometimes, tragic results transpire whatever spontaneous actions/reactions people take. Should the cop go against the training he has been given in regards to potentially lethal encounters, (like he/she had the luxury to think it through, OR he/she had a crystal ball,) and took a bullet to the head instead, that would have been just as sad. But given the choices, I think I would error on the side of caution too. It would be great if we could all get it right all the time.

    But the focus is on demeaning the only thing that is really trying to make a difference. It's time we should start talking about the "true threats," facing our African-American brother's and sister's if we are, at all, truly concerned as to their well being. We're chastising the band-aid, all the while, ignoring the infection.

    But, if anything positive does come out of all this lime-lighted police situations it might be to get America's attention that our police forces are becoming more and more regimented and militarized. I can understand why. But we need to implement the training to our protector's, that will make them realize that we "civillians," are not the Taliban. We are not the enemy. There needs to be more of that taught in their training. This "alpha-male," bully attitude is very unappealing. We pay their salary. (Albeit, not enough.)

    Hail to the Chief. Tell it like it is.

    Last edited by Captain America; 11-26-14 at 07:27 PM.

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  3. #413
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    Re: The next Ferguson ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    We got some of that police shooting stuff going on here in Milwaukee too. The Police Chief pretty much expresses many of my views as well.

    This is sad. It's beyond sad. I heart just melts when I think of the loss and suffrage.

    There are so many "what-if's," that can be conceived when your watching Sunday's game tapes on Monday. I bet those cops will be pondering into their old age, "what if I had done this instead." I'm just glad I don't have their job.

    But don't get me wrong. Bad cops piss me off too. But I also happen to know that good cops get pissed off at bad cops even more than I do. Baby/Bathwater.

    People are quick to fall on the side away from authority. I am guilty of that myself. I have posted a few "bad cop on video," posts myself.

    But sometimes, tragic results transpire whatever spontaneous actions/reactions people take. Should the cop go against the training he has been given in regards to potentially lethal encounters, (like he/she had the luxury to think it through, OR he/she had a crystal ball,) and took a bullet to the head instead, that would have been just as sad. But given the choices, I think I would error on the side of caution too. It would be great if we could all get it right all the time.

    But the focus is on demeaning the only thing that is really trying to make a difference. It's time we should start talking about the "true threats," facing our African-American brother's and sister's if we are, at all, truly concerned as to their well being. We're chastising the band-aid, all the while, ignoring the infection.

    But, if anything positive does come out of all this lime-lighted police situations it might be to get America's attention that our police forces are becoming more and more regimented and militarized. I can understand why. But we need to implement the training to our protector's, that will make them realize that we "civillians," are not the Taliban. We are not the enemy. There needs to be more of that taught in their training. This "alpha-male," bully attitude is very unappealing. We pay their salary. (Albeit, not enough.)

    Hail to the Chief. Tell it like it is.

    This is a thoughtful post, but I disagree with much of its underlying reasoning. I don't deny that police have to make difficult decisions in life-threatening situations, but I firmly believe that authority must be wielded responsibly, and that means the police must be held accountable for the outcome of their tactics. In this particular case, aggressive policing led directly to the tragic outcome. The boy may have appeared to be a threat, but in reality he was not. If the police approached more calmly and with a bias toward preventing confrontation, no one gets hurt. I don't know what police training tells an officer to do. But what plays out on that video is a travesty. Authority needs to be wielded with restraint. This was reckless.

    Extend your own logic -- that second-guessing is unfair -- to anyone charted with involuntary manslaughter. Let's at least hold police to the same standard of justice we hold our own citizens, if not a higher standard.

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    Re: The next Ferguson ?

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    This is a thoughtful post, but I disagree with much of its underlying reasoning. I don't deny that police have to make difficult decisions in life-threatening situations, but I firmly believe that authority must be wielded responsibly, and that means the police must be held accountable for the outcome of their tactics. In this particular case, aggressive policing led directly to the tragic outcome. The boy may have appeared to be a threat, but in reality he was not. If the police approached more calmly and with a bias toward preventing confrontation, no one gets hurt. I don't know what police training tells an officer to do. But what plays out on that video is a travesty. Authority needs to be wielded with restraint. This was reckless.

    Extend your own logic -- that second-guessing is unfair -- to anyone charted with involuntary manslaughter. Let's at least hold police to the same standard of justice we hold our own citizens, if not a higher standard.
    Very good points. I am the last to suggest that we do not hold our gun totin' authorities to a high standard. But let us not forget that the resource pool is human and the odds are that these people put their lives in harms way, probably more in one day, than most folks do, in a lifetime. And, the more you roll the dice, the more odds you have of crapping out, than the man who does not roll at all. If these cops weren't placed in these kinds of situations, as often as they are these days, there would not be this many incidents. It's a matter of ratio. Numbers.

    Sure. Put them under the microscope and scrutinize. By all means. I am just asking that we all not forget that we walk in a totally different pair of shoes than they do. Consider all things. Let's at least try to contain our urges to "stick it to the man," by considering all sides.

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    Re: The next Ferguson ?

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    Absolutely NOT a good shoot.
    Can we not use that phrase?


    Two seconds pass between the time police arrive until the time he is down....
    I don't think we can make a viable judgment based on a grainy video.

    Again, the entire incident needs to be reviewed. Snap judgments don't help that process.

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    Re: The next Ferguson ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Can we not use that phrase?



    I don't think we can make a viable judgment based on a grainy video.

    Again, the entire incident needs to be reviewed. Snap judgments don't help that process.
    Snap judgments caused this child's death. I'm not sure what you saw on that video, but I saw a kid walking around a gazebo, the cops pull up and 2 seconds later -- snap -- the boy is down.

  7. #417
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    Re: The next Ferguson ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    We got some of that police shooting stuff going on here in Milwaukee too. The Police Chief pretty much expresses many of my views as well.

    This is sad. It's beyond sad. I heart just melts when I think of the loss and suffrage.

    There are so many "what-if's," that can be conceived when your watching Sunday's game tapes on Monday. I bet those cops will be pondering into their old age, "what if I had done this instead." I'm just glad I don't have their job.

    But don't get me wrong. Bad cops piss me off too. But I also happen to know that good cops get pissed off at bad cops even more than I do. Baby/Bathwater.

    People are quick to fall on the side away from authority. I am guilty of that myself. I have posted a few "bad cop on video," posts myself.

    But sometimes, tragic results transpire whatever spontaneous actions/reactions people take. Should the cop go against the training he has been given in regards to potentially lethal encounters, (like he/she had the luxury to think it through, OR he/she had a crystal ball,) and took a bullet to the head instead, that would have been just as sad. But given the choices, I think I would error on the side of caution too. It would be great if we could all get it right all the time.

    But the focus is on demeaning the only thing that is really trying to make a difference. It's time we should start talking about the "true threats," facing our African-American brother's and sister's if we are, at all, truly concerned as to their well being. We're chastising the band-aid, all the while, ignoring the infection.

    But, if anything positive does come out of all this lime-lighted police situations it might be to get America's attention that our police forces are becoming more and more regimented and militarized. I can understand why. But we need to implement the training to our protector's, that will make them realize that we "civillians," are not the Taliban. We are not the enemy. There needs to be more of that taught in their training. This "alpha-male," bully attitude is very unappealing. We pay their salary. (Albeit, not enough.)

    Hail to the Chief. Tell it like it is.

    I posted this somewhere else, but you brought it up and I thought it applied here as well. You ask why our police forces are becoming more militarized. Look at their applicants. I've been in the Marine Corps for going on 16 years. In only 2 of those have we not been at war. During those 16 years, I've seen many a Marine come and go. A lot of them, upon honorable discharge, apply to their local LE entity whether it be city/county/state/federal. Now, those are the guys on the street. Those are the guys that are planning operations. I'm not saying we have a bunch of testosterone laden, PTSD ridden vets running rampant on our streets. What I'm saying is you have a bunch of guys who's idea of policing is kicking the door in and taking down bad guys. Right or wrong, that's how they were trained and most LE units do nothing to change that idea. Add that to the fact that our federal gov't gives away MRAPs, body armor, optics, NVG's, etc like they're candy to whatever podunk police dept wants them and you have a militant police force. These aren't the end all be all answers to your questions, but I believe they are big factors.

    On a lighter note, I for real thought that black chick on the left side of the screen shot for your video was wearing a flower for a hat lol. I had to double take.

    Further edit: I didn't watch the video prior to posting my original statement. That guy is awesome. Great speech and so true. I said this before. If the black community would concentrate on fixing black on black crime, childbirth out of wedlock, low graduation rates, high unemployment rates, etc, etc within their ranks, the rest of the country might listen to them. But when they off themselves in record numbers and then turn on a single cop when he protects himself, no one wants to hear it. Is Michael Brown's life now more important because a white cop shot him vice the thousands of black people that were shot by other black people? I don't think so. Apparently they do.
    Last edited by MarineTpartier; 11-26-14 at 11:20 PM.
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    Re: The next Ferguson ?

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    This is a thoughtful post, but I disagree with much of its underlying reasoning. I don't deny that police have to make difficult decisions in life-threatening situations, but I firmly believe that authority must be wielded responsibly, and that means the police must be held accountable for the outcome of their tactics. In this particular case, aggressive policing led directly to the tragic outcome. The boy may have appeared to be a threat, but in reality he was not. If the police approached more calmly and with a bias toward preventing confrontation, no one gets hurt. I don't know what police training tells an officer to do. But what plays out on that video is a travesty. Authority needs to be wielded with restraint. This was reckless.

    Extend your own logic -- that second-guessing is unfair -- to anyone charted with involuntary manslaughter. Let's at least hold police to the same standard of justice we hold our own citizens, if not a higher standard.
    Have you ever been in a shootout?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #419
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    Re: The next Ferguson ?

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    Snap judgments caused this child's death. I'm not sure what you saw on that video, but I saw a kid walking around a gazebo, the cops pull up and 2 seconds later -- snap -- the boy is down.
    Really?!? That's all you saw?

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
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  10. #420
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    Re: The next Ferguson ?

    All part of the gun culture claiming another life whether one thinks the kid was at fault or the cops are at fault.

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