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Thread: 30,000 missing emails from IRS' Lerner recovered

  1. #21
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    Re: 30,000 missing emails from IRS' Lerner recovered

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    I don't know which DR system they used but most involve sending tapes off to iron Mountain or another off site storage center.
    The files themselves were likely stored as metadata, with CRC time stamps, it would take many months to try and remove some bit of text,
    and not violate the CRC bit counting algorithm.
    I am sure they are probably using Comvault, Netbackup, or maybe EMC Networker, and I agree with your point. If you were trying to pull backups off of tape and then delete some of it, you would have to restore it all, delete what you wanted to delete, then write it all back to tape again. Then you would still have to somehow get all the dates to match back up.

    Updated: IRS e-mails not lost after all

    On a side note, Tapes are a terrible DR system if you have a lot of data to store (as I am sure the IRS has). Restore times are slow and you would have to rebuild your infrastructure and restore back into to it. It's why almost every big datacenter utilizes replicated SANs and standby Virtual Machines. Given the procedure to recover Exchange Server email via tape, its not surprising it took them months to do it. That said, we utilize an email archiving system and have a standby DR VMs of all our exchange server infrastructure. I could have restored those emails in less than a day on our system (probably just a few minutes).
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    Re: 30,000 missing emails from IRS' Lerner recovered

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    First, let me say that this makes me happy. I gotta be honest, I was fairly certain this would all be swept under the rug as per business as usual.

    Second, I agree, assume that any info being provided to the DOJ is going have missing parts. I mean, for starters, anyone who is not a complete blithering idiot knows about a variety of file retrieval methods from crashed HDs. Hell, I'm not even a remotely competent IT guy, and yet, I did the very same thing on my mac two or three years back to retrieve all of my digital photographs and music. I lost a grand total of.....NOTHING. Absolutely freaking nothing. In FACT, even the worms that had infected some of the files where still there, lol, according to my wife's scanner.

    So what I want to know is, how hard of a time did the DOJ have of retrieving those emails? Like, how difficult was it? And if it was (likely) not difficult at all, can someone please be brought up on obstruction of justice?
    Since it came back off of tape there should not be any missing. The only missing emails would be emails that were received or sent and then deleted the same day thus never made it onto tape in the first place. Even those should be tombstoned and thus still retrievable.

    That said, restoring emails from tape is a real mother****** as you have to basically rebuild an entire exchange and active directory domain infrastructure, segment it all from your current exchange and AD infrastructure, restore all the storage groups and databases, check them for integrity, and then you can pull what you want out. If you are pulling multiple tape backups then you are doing that multiple times.
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    Re: 30,000 missing emails from IRS' Lerner recovered

    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisshort View Post
    They have had many many months to doctor these files
    true, but DR systems do not store the data as direct files, but arrange the groups of files for maximum storage.
    It would be very difficult to isolate a single file without the cypher used to store them, and harder still to edit it in a
    way that would not show up. Impossible? of course not, but VERY difficult.

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    Re: 30,000 missing emails from IRS' Lerner recovered

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    I am sure they are probably using Comvault, Netbackup, or maybe EMC Networker, and I agree with your point. If you were trying to pull backups off of tape and then delete some of it, you would have to restore it all, delete what you wanted to delete, then write it all back to tape again. Then you would still have to somehow get all the dates to match back up.

    Updated: IRS e-mails not lost after all

    On a side note, Tapes are a terrible DR system if you have a lot of data to store (as I am sure the IRS has). Restore times are slow and you would have to rebuild your infrastructure and restore back into to it. It's why almost every big datacenter utilizes replicated SANs and standby Virtual Machines. Given the procedure to recover Exchange Server email via tape, its not surprising it took them months to do it. That said, we utilize an email archiving system and have a standby DR VMs of all our exchange server infrastructure. I could have restored those emails in less than a day on our system (probably just a few minutes).
    I am thinking the DR tapes were only used for off site DR storage, I.E. portable non network attached storage.
    Some expert perhaps told them that the DR files would be unrecoverable if the storage system had a accident, which is sort of true, and also why most people who do
    this sort of stuff have local offline backups of the storage system itself.

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    Re: 30,000 missing emails from IRS' Lerner recovered

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Does it really matter to you? Are there any number of emails they could recover that would change your opinion on what happened?
    Nope, because Republicans have been rooting hard for Obama to commit a major scandal since the day he took office. They rejoiced when they thought they had him and tore their hair out as the manufactured outrages went nowhere.
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    Re: 30,000 missing emails from IRS' Lerner recovered

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    I am thinking the DR tapes were only used for off site DR storage, I.E. portable non network attached storage.
    Some expert perhaps told them that the DR files would be unrecoverable if the storage system had a accident, which is sort of true, and also why most people who do
    this sort of stuff have local offline backups of the storage system itself.
    Most companies either are moving away from tape or have already. We offsite our backups between our corporate office and hosting facility and its all on disk. We just replicate between backup cores and then between SANs. Of course the government is notoriously always 10 to 20 years behind the trends technology wise (and they usually are lacking in IT talent as their salaries just aren't that competitive). Disk space is so cheap anymore that it's cost effective to do so, and I trust Raid 6 much more than tapes stored in some dusty cave somewhere. Back when we used tapes, a good percentage of the time that i requested them back they were unreadable.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: 30,000 missing emails from IRS' Lerner recovered

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Most companies either are moving away from tape or have already. We offsite our backups between our corporate office and hosting facility and its all on disk. We just replicate between backup cores and then between SANs. Of course the government is notoriously always 10 to 20 years behind the trends technology wise (and they usually are lacking in IT talent as their salaries just aren't that competitive). Disk space is so cheap anymore that it's cost effective to do so, and I trust Raid 6 much more than tapes stored in some dusty cave somewhere. Back when we used tapes, a good percentage of the time that i requested them back they were unreadable.
    I am guessing, the government contract required offsite storage. They likely thought the DR media would be useless without the storage system,
    but given time and effort even the that mess could be recovered. (If someone REALLY wanted to).

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    Re: 30,000 missing emails from IRS' Lerner recovered

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I wonder how they were recovered? Didn't they swear up and down that all data was deleted/not accessible?
    Because they're lying sacks of political ****, and don't know that IT people are paid to back this **** up. It's a requirement.
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    Re: 30,000 missing emails from IRS' Lerner recovered

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    30,000 missing emails from IRS' Lerner recovered

    The missing emails extend from 2009 to 2011, a period when Lerner headed the IRSís exempt-organizations division

    30,000 missing emails from IRS' Lerner recovered | WashingtonExaminer.com


    So how do they establish that data was not removed?
    This has great potential to be disruptive and game changing.
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    Re: 30,000 missing emails from IRS' Lerner recovered

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Nope, because Republicans have been rooting hard for Obama to commit a major scandal since the day he took office. They rejoiced when they thought they had him and tore their hair out as the manufactured outrages went nowhere.
    We didn't have to root for Obama to **** up; it was only a matter of time before he ****ed up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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