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House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

I'll take that on...

No. For starters, it's a divided House. Only House Republicans are bringing about the suit, not House Democrats or even the Senate.

Second, the SCOTUS has already ruled that Congress has other remedies to settle their "balance of power" and "Executive over-reach" claims against a sitting President. Unless the President has done something criminal, it's highly unlikely anything will come of this lawsuit.

Thanks for your input, and you may be right. We'll see if a court tosses the lawsuit.

Here in Canada, the Supreme Court is often asked by the government to provide advice on the legality of executive/legislative action. I find it to be a reasonable approach to complicated constitutional issues, even if I don't always agree with the Supreme Court's rulings. I find it odd that, in America, a minor dispute about jurisdiction or Congress's power to legislate and fund can only be settled with the heavy hammer of impeachment.

I would also note that the Supreme Court did actually take up and rule on the issue of Obama's declaration that the Senate was in recess and he could make appointments to the LRB, as one example where dispute between the two branches went the court route.
 
Oh yeah, no doubt...Not much looks the same today as it did 40+ years ago....But that's progress right? ;)

Well it is movement ----- as to progress... not so sure.
 
We didn't get much, maybe 2 inches of snow. The real monster storm hit west and south of us. I'm in Rochester; Buffalo to just southwest of here got buried. Thank you for your concern. We're all good here. :)

My parents moved to Rochester when they first immigrated. Said the snow was piled higher than the cars parked along the curb.
 
I posted this once, now let's see if you read it this time...



Ultimately we will have to wait to see what the courts say, but just as you believe that he is within his power, and broke no law, I believe he has....

So are you equally all up in arms at his refusal to prosecute marijuana distribution in states like CA and CO?

Or is your poutrage selective?
 
So are you equally all up in arms at his refusal to prosecute marijuana distribution in states like CA and CO?

Or is your poutrage selective?

So it's all or nothing with you eh? Dope has nothing to do with this.
 
So are you equally all up in arms at his refusal to prosecute marijuana distribution in states like CA and CO?

Or is your poutrage selective?

There is truth and wisdom amid your snark. Almost all of us are selective in our outrage, our condemnation, our anger and in the umbrage we take. And much of it is based on our own politics and ideology. And to some extent its the old fashioned whose ox is being gored.... and if its not ours we tend to look the other way. That is why the problem has been building for many decades now under both parties and only gets worse despite changes in the White House and Congress. And when there is no crisis of the moment which compels political outrage - like the current one - nobody wants to waste any time or effort or spend any political capital doing anything about it.

And so it will simply continue.
 
So it's all or nothing with you eh? Dope has nothing to do with this.

It's selective prosecution.

Obama has specifically declared he will not prosecute Marijuana growers and dealers in CO and CA and other states. This is, to your interpretation, clearly illegal because cannabis is a federally controlled schedule 1 drug BY LAW.

Same thing you are poutraged about.
 
It's selective prosecution.

Obama has specifically declared he will not prosecute Marijuana growers and dealers in CO and CA and other states. This is, to your interpretation, clearly illegal because cannabis is a federally controlled schedule 1 drug BY LAW.

Same thing you are poutraged about.

I believe that Marijuana is a states issue...That said, this is about immigration please stay on topic.
 
I believe that Marijuana is a states issue...That said, this is about immigration please stay on topic.

Nice deflection. Cannabis is Federally outlawed.

So I repeat, is your outrage over this selective prosecution and ignoring Federal law consistent, or is it just because it's something you don't happen to like?
 
Nice deflection. Cannabis is Federally outlawed.

So I repeat, is your outrage over this selective prosecution and ignoring Federal law consistent, or is it just because it's something you don't happen to like?

You're trying as hard as you can to dismiss my disappointment in a President enacting something he consistently, and repeatedly stated he had no authority to do, by introducing a strawman argument...It's a fail, and is done.
 
Texas should sue the republican congress. They are the ones who promised to block everything and do nothing... And they've lived up to that promise. Now Texas is suing the guy who IS doing something? Me thinks the lawsuit is as partisan as the rest of this crap.


That's right. Texas is suing the Obama Administration now for largely that reason.
 
Texas should sue the republican congress. They are the ones who promised to block everything and do nothing... And they've lived up to that promise. Now Texas is suing the guy who IS doing something? Me thinks the lawsuit is as partisan as the rest of this crap.
So you feel Congress should be sued for not enacting a law? That could set a legal precedent.

The president, or any politician, can be sued for committing an illegal act.
 
So you feel Congress should be sued for not enacting a law? That could set a legal precedent.

The president, or any politician, can be sued for committing an illegal act.

Except in this instance they are going to sue him for a precedent set by Saint Reagan.
 
Read more @: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

So it begins. Suspecting this to go absolutely nowhere. Just another stunt. [/FONT][/COLOR]

I agree that this is a stunt. If the Republicans want to do something about illegal immigration, they have had years to do so. They can pass a strong bill in January. But they won't. They do not aim to solve the issue or make headway on it. They merely play games and pull stunts, without ever actually DOING anything.

For all their railing against the ACA, I have yet to see a serious health care reform bill passed by the Republicans.

It's easy to criticize. It's more difficult to actually do something about a problem.
 
I agree that this is a stunt. If the Republicans want to do something about illegal immigration, they have had years to do so. They can pass a strong bill in January. But they won't. They do not aim to solve the issue or make headway on it. They merely play games and pull stunts, without ever actually DOING anything.

I think they are going to HAVE TO now. Otherwise, they lose upwards of 100% of the latino vote.
 
I agree that this is a stunt. If the Republicans want to do something about illegal immigration, they have had years to do so. They can pass a strong bill in January. But they won't. They do not aim to solve the issue or make headway on it. They merely play games and pull stunts, without ever actually DOING anything.

Under this President there is the strong belief among Republicans that the Executive will simply take any compromise deal, sign it into law, and then refuse to enforce the portions that it doesn't like, effectively destroying the compromise, and ruining the trust that would be necessary for it to occur in the first place.

....now gosh..... I wonder where they could have gotten that idea....

For all their railing against the ACA, I have yet to see a serious health care reform bill passed by the Republicans.

Here you go

It's easy to criticize. It's more difficult to actually do something about a problem.

The Executive does not have the Constitutional Authority to demand that other branches of Government either A) accept its' prioritization of issues or B) pass legislation in accordance with its preferences.
 
I think they are going to HAVE TO now. Otherwise, they lose upwards of 100% of the latino vote.

They no longer have the ability to. Obama made sure of that. Compromise on this issue is dead until he leaves because legislative compromise requires trust in the Rule of Law that no longer exists.
 
They no longer have the ability to. Obama made sure of that. Compromise on this issue is dead until he leaves because legislative compromise requires trust in the Rule of Law that no longer exists.

They totally have the ability to- what a whiny cry....Obama uses EO's so we can't pass anything!

There is a Senate immigration bill being blocked by the house that, if brought to the floor, would pass.

But Boehner can't control the nuts in his own party that are invested in sermonizing immigrants- aka Steve King and the TeaPartiers.
 
They totally have the ability to- what a whiny cry....Obama uses EO's so we can't pass anything!

No. Any compromise we make will be wrecked by an Executive that refuses to enforce the law. Hence, no compromise can be made.

I tell you what, I will sell you my car for $500 bucks. It's worth $4,000. I promise. Just wire me the $500 and I'll get it to you.

Oh, I have a history of fraud? Why should that impact whether or not you send me the 5 Benjamin's?
 
No. Any compromise we make will be wrecked by an Executive that refuses to enforce the law. Hence, no compromise can be made.

I tell you what, I will sell you my car for $500 bucks. It's worth $4,000. I promise. Just wire me the $500 and I'll get it to you.

Oh, I have a history of fraud? Why should that impact whether or not you send me the 5 Benjamin's?

Well, then the GOP should just resign en masse and leave government!

You have advanced an incredibly inept argument. I actually thought you were somewhat rational before this comment.
 
Well, then the GOP should just resign en masse and leave government!

No. Firstly, they were elected to their office and should serve accordingly. That is their duty. Secondly, it's time to start defining the parties. Now that Harry Reid is no longer able to stop bills from passing, let's send up some stuff so that Democrats can vote on it and kill it publicly if they wish, and take the heat for doing so.

You have advanced an incredibly inept argument. I actually thought you were somewhat rational before this comment.

I realize that you don't have any kind of a counter other than the ridiculous hyperbole above. However, that doesn't actually make the fact that the President just killed the necessary underpinning of major compromises (trust that they will be followed) any less true.
 
Thanks for your input, and you may be right. We'll see if a court tosses the lawsuit.

Here in Canada, the Supreme Court is often asked by the government to provide advice on the legality of executive/legislative action. I find it to be a reasonable approach to complicated constitutional issues, even if I don't always agree with the Supreme Court's rulings. I find it odd that, in America, a minor dispute about jurisdiction or Congress's power to legislate and fund can only be settled with the heavy hammer of impeachment.

I would also note that the Supreme Court did actually take up and rule on the issue of Obama's declaration that the Senate was in recess and he could make appointments to the LRB, as one example where dispute between the two branches went the court route.

Actually, the question of appropriations (funding) where the PPACA is concerned could easily be remedied if Congress acted accordingly, i.e., a) appropriate funds as outlined in the law itself or b) modify the law by removing the word "Sec, HHS is authorized to appropriate" or words to that effect from the law wherever it appears. Of course, they'll do neither because that 25% of congressional membership that has brought about this lawsuit (towit, House Republicans) doesn't want to do it. They'd rather continue to use political and procedural tactics to undermine existing law just to win political points rather than fully acknowledge that by working with their Democrat colleagues they could fix the law even if it means "repeal and replace" the PPACA with something that still provides health insurance but resolves the process issues within the law. Yes, I know there have been several attempts to repeal Obamacare, but there haven't been any serious proposals (bills) to replace it with anything substantial.

As it stands, the SCOTUS will likely rule in favor of the Obama Administration for the reason I've outlined previously - lack of harm to and/or standing by 25% of Congress (House Republicans) and the very fact that the law itself grants the Sec. HHS appropriations authority even if ultimately such funds come directly from funds within their own budget after such appropriations were initially granted by Congress but not fully used by the appropriate Department towhich they were granted.

I'm reading the lawsuit and the sections of the PPACA that are in question and it's very clear that despite the enumerated appropriations power granted to Congress, the law does authorize the Sec, HHS to withdraw funds from the Treasury in a variety of ways and in some cases indefinitely for as long as the law stands. It's no wonder the GOP wants to repeal it! But the SCOTUS will likely rule that although Congress has the power of the purse, the law grants such appropriations and the only way to remedy the problem is for Congress to either: a) fulfill the very duty towhich it is attempting to get the SCOTUS to do for them - rewrite the law, or b) impeach the President.

In the end, the SCOTUS will probably rule that Congress has other remedies to fix this problem including impeachment, but the problem with going the impeachment route is the lawsuit isn't directed at the President. It's directed at the Sec, HHS and the Sec, Treasury. Thus, their beef really isn't with him. It's with certain Cabinet heads within his Administration.
 
Read more @: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

So it begins. Suspecting this to go absolutely nowhere. Just another stunt. [/FONT][/COLOR]



Do you mean "stunt" as in "you can keep your plan.....?

Or as in giving a select number of illegals a temporary pass that does nothing to solve any immigration issue? That kid of stunt?


Or is it in league with a faked faint the day after having said "I never said that....."

The type of "stunt" is important. Meanwhile, if it is a "stunt" I am sure that Obama's management of the courts will enable the judges to see through it and deny the suit...if it's a stunt that is
 
Actually, the question of appropriations (funding) where the PPACA is concerned could easily be remedied if Congress acted accordingly, i.e., a) appropriate funds as outlined in the law itself or b) modify the law by removing the word "Sec, HHS is authorized to appropriate" or words to that effect from the law wherever it appears. Of course, they'll do neither because that 25% of congressional membership that has brought about this lawsuit (towit, House Republicans) doesn't want to do it. They'd rather continue to use political and procedural tactics to undermine existing law just to win political points rather than fully acknowledge that by working with their Democrat colleagues they could fix the law even if it means "repeal and replace" the PPACA with something that still provides health insurance but resolves the process issues within the law. Yes, I know there have been several attempts to repeal Obamacare, but there haven't been any serious proposals (bills) to replace it with anything substantial.

As it stands, the SCOTUS will likely rule in favor of the Obama Administration for the reason I've outlined previously - lack of harm to and/or standing by 25% of Congress (House Republicans) and the very fact that the law itself grants the Sec. HHS appropriations authority even if ultimately such funds come directly from funds within their own budget after such appropriations were initially granted by Congress but not fully used by the appropriate Department towhich they were granted.

I'm reading the lawsuit and the sections of the PPACA that are in question and it's very clear that despite the enumerated appropriations power granted to Congress, the law does authorize the Sec, HHS to withdraw funds from the Treasury in a variety of ways and in some cases indefinitely for as long as the law stands. It's no wonder the GOP wants to repeal it! But the SCOTUS will likely rule that although Congress has the power of the purse, the law grants such appropriations and the only way to remedy the problem is for Congress to either: a) fulfill the very duty towhich it is attempting to get the SCOTUS to do for them - rewrite the law, or b) impeach the President.

In the end, the SCOTUS will probably rule that Congress has other remedies to fix this problem including impeachment, but the problem with going the impeachment route is the lawsuit isn't directed at the President. It's directed at the Sec, HHS and the Sec, Treasury. Thus, their beef really isn't with him. It's with certain Cabinet heads within his Administration.

No disrespect, but based on the rationale you've outlined above, do you honestly think that the Democrats in the Senate would allow a vote and adopt a bill from the House that altered the ACA in the way you suggest and even if by some miracle they did, the President wouldn't veto it?
 
No disrespect, but based on the rationale you've outlined above, do you honestly think that the Democrats in the Senate would allow a vote and adopt a bill from the House that altered the ACA in the way you suggest and even if by some miracle they did, the President wouldn't veto it?

I guess it depends on what changes are being proposed. You have to remember there were two basic objectives behind the PPACA:

1) to provide access to insurance coverage to as many people as possible;

2) to provide various funding mechanism to pay for health insurance exchanges at both the state and federal levels.

The goal, of course, is to increase access to health care while bringing down the cost. If such a bill continued to meet such objectives without forcing people to change their existing health care coverage, increase the cost or eliminate it all together all while being self-sustaining financially, I don't see why such a bill would fail to pass muster.
 
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