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Thread: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

  1. #221
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    This is completely wrong.
    Nope, not wrong at all, and you even agree with me on most of my points, you just don't realize that you agree...

    You pay someone, in this case a company, to take some of your risk for a thing that has not yet happened. If it has happened it is no longer a risk. Companies use statistics to determine how much risk they can "buy" for a particular fee.
    Exactly what I was explaining. Insurance is socialistic in nature. Insurance companies pool the premiums from a bunch of people, and then they redistribute the money on need bases. While I get that our current system isn't forced (at least not until Obummercare), that doesn't negate the reality that insurance in itself is a socialistic enterprise, even if it is voluntary and for profit.

    What all of this idiotic healthcare is today is prepaid services.
    I totally agree. that's what I am trying to explain, what we have now, the prepaid healthcare plan, isn't really the normal purpose of insurance. It's like buying auto insurance and expecting the insurance company to cover the cost of gas and oil and normal maintenance.

    If we could get the government completely out of health care we would have a wide variety of products to choose from across a wide variety of price points.
    I agree that we should get government out of healthcare, however as it is, even with Obummercare, we still ahve a wide variety of products to choose from, and a wide variety of prices. Maybe you should shop around for insurance some, so that you can see there are zillions of different options - even on the healthcare.gov site.

    It is socialism that drives up cost, lowers quality and makes a very great many of us angry.
    Yep. The prepaid healthcare plan, which we both agree is socialistic, drives up costs because it removes the motive for price competition between healthcare providers. That's exactly what we need to get away from, regardless of Obummercare (we had these prepaid plans long before Obummercare existed).

    Our only healthcare crises is the cost of healthcare, and insurance isn't the solution, it's actually the biggest problem. I totally agree that government policies have created this monster, but it didn't just start with Obama, it started decades earlier. Yes, we should get rid of Obummercare, but we also need to get rid of virtually all government involvement in healthcare. Prices and the level of care and what treatments are given should be between the patient and the doctor, and government and our employers have no business being involved, they simply shouldn't be a party to my healthcare decisions, any more than they should determine what I eat or who I marry or what type of car I drive.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  2. #222
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That's great for you Scott, but you understand you are not the norm right? Also, like I said, we all understand that pre existing conditions were a problem, but you don't need 2000 plus pages to rectify that.
    I'm not the norm, but thousands if not millions of families have been turned down for insurance on the bases that someone is too high of a risk, essentially dumping much of the health care cost of those people onto everyone else in the form of jacked up prices at the emergency room. People like my wife, who would have gladly contributed to the system by purchasing a health insurance policy, if she could have found a company that would cover her.

    I don't have to have a solution, I am not in government...But if I were, I wouldn't have voted for this piece of crap...
    Me either. I met with our congressman (at the time), Bob Inglis, to push for a better solution. My ideas fell on deaf ears.

    I'm far from an Obummercare supporter. I don't like the partisan hate speech and lies that so many on the radical right spew out, and when I point out the fallacy in those lies, the anti-logic that people like Rush use to trick otherwise perfectly normal people into despising Obama to the degree that they wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire. I've never see hatred of any president to this degree, I suspect that the fact that a black man is in the white house has caused this (not suggesting that every Obummer hater is a racist, only that when we are told lie after lie after lie for long enough, we naturally start believing that they are true, and have thus have been brainwashed to hate Obummer).
    Last edited by imagep; 12-01-14 at 08:12 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  3. #223
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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Exactly what I was explaining. Insurance is socialistic in nature. Insurance companies pool the premiums from a bunch of people, and then they redistribute the money on need bases. While I get that our current system isn't forced (at least not until Obummercare), that doesn't negate the reality that insurance in itself is a socialistic enterprise, even if it is voluntary and for profit.
    If that is the case, every investment bank or hedge fund I've ever worked for was a socialist enterprise, because insurance companies are not just pooling premiums from a bunch of people...

    Also, you get out what you paid in with insurance. How is that socialist?

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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Nope, not wrong at all, and you even agree with me on most of my points, you just don't realize that you agree...
    LOL. No. You might be delusional.


    Exactly what I was explaining. Insurance is socialistic in nature. Insurance companies pool the premiums from a bunch of people, and then they redistribute the money on need bases. While I get that our current system isn't forced (at least not until Obummercare), that doesn't negate the reality that insurance in itself is a socialistic enterprise, even if it is voluntary and for profit.
    And you are still completely wrong. It is amazing just how little we learn in school these days. The money is not pooled. No one is redistributing wealth. I just have to say, "wow!"

  5. #225
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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreetVixen View Post
    If that is the case, every investment bank or hedge fund I've ever worked for was a socialist enterprise, because insurance companies are not just pooling premiums from a bunch of people...
    No. These hedge funds are very different. You have an account, and your money is your money.

    Also, you get out what you paid in with insurance. How is that socialist?
    I have had insurance continuously for the past 25 years, yet I have never once filed a claim. So are you suggesting that I can now just "cash in" on my healthcare insurance and get all my premiums back?

    Or are you saying that I can contact my money manager and tell him that I had an unexpected expense, and somehow "withdraw" more money than I have in my account?

    You may have worked on Wall Street, but I'm beginning to suspect you are a janitor or the mail clerk, as you have absolutely no understanding of how these things work.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  6. #226
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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    LOL. No. You might be delusional.



    And you are still completely wrong. It is amazing just how little we learn in school these days. The money is not pooled. No one is redistributing wealth. I just have to say, "wow!"
    So you think that the premiums that I pay to my health insurance company are all sitting in an account with my name on it? Like I can withdraw my premiums any time that I desire? Or that if I had a big medical bill, the insurance company wouldn't have to honor our contract because I hadn't paid enough into that insurance account to cover the bill?

    Yup, I also just have to say "wow", it's amazing just how little you are learning in your school.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  7. #227
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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    No. These hedge funds are very different. You have an account, and your money is your money.
    How is it different? I have an insurance plan. My money is my money, and I use it for the services I get with my insurance. I pay fees and I get a service, just like with any hedge fund I have invested in, or managed.

    It might be news to you, but insurance companies are not piling these premiums collected by insurance policy holders. By your logic, a hedge fund is not any different from an insurance company.

    I have had insurance continuously for the past 25 years, yet I have never once filed a claim. So are you suggesting that I can now just "cash in" on my healthcare insurance and get all my premiums back?

    Or are you saying that I can contact my money manager and tell him that I had an unexpected expense, and somehow "withdraw" more money than I have in my account?
    I am saying, "you get out what you paid in with insurance." I asked, "How is that socialist?"

    Address my words, not your assumptions.

    You may have worked on Wall Street, but I'm beginning to suspect you are a janitor or the mail clerk, as you have absolutely no understanding of how these things work.
    Haven't you already learned by now that playing that card doesn't work out well for you? Also, I haven't claimed to work on Wall Street, ever. Since I don't like bragging about my work, I'll let my about me page do it for me.

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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    So you think that the premiums that I pay to my health insurance company are all sitting in an account with my name on it? Like I can withdraw my premiums any time that I desire? Or that if I had a big medical bill, the insurance company wouldn't have to honor our contract because I hadn't paid enough into that insurance account to cover the bill?

    Yup, I also just have to say "wow", it's amazing just how little you are learning in your school.
    No. I think enterprising people made a business out of determining how to make a profit by assuming some of your risk. That is not socialism. Ignorance is just so damned ugly. The worst part is not all the things you don't know, it is all the things you know that are not true.

  9. #229
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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    I'm not the norm, but thousands if not millions of families have been turned down for insurance on the bases that someone is too high of a risk, essentially dumping much of the health care cost of those people onto everyone else in the form of jacked up prices at the emergency room. People like my wife, who would have gladly contributed to the system by purchasing a health insurance policy, if she could have found a company that would cover her.

    As I said, I don't think we needed the ACA to fix "pre existing conditions" denials...But to the further point you make, can you tell me how much Health Insurance premiums have gone down since the inception of the ACA? Oh wait, they haven't. Can you tell me if deductibles for insurance coverage has gone down? No, it hasn't....So, what exactly did this fix? Or, was it that the burden of insuring those that were without coverage, were pushed into something, and that something was going to be paid for by taking from the middle class, and distributing to these people via Medicaid, or subsidy. And it was blatantly lied about to get passed...But hey, as long as you are doing fine with it...

    Me either. I met with our congressman (at the time), Bob Inglis, to push for a better solution. My ideas fell on deaf ears.

    I'm far from an Obummercare supporter. I don't like the partisan hate speech and lies that so many on the radical right spew out, and when I point out the fallacy in those lies, the anti-logic that people like Rush use to trick otherwise perfectly normal people into despising Obama to the degree that they wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire. I've never see hatred of any president to this degree, I suspect that the fact that a black man is in the white house has caused this (not suggesting that every Obummer hater is a racist, only that when we are told lie after lie after lie for long enough, we naturally start believing that they are true, and have thus have been brainwashed to hate Obummer).
    Maybe the President wouldn't garner such ill will toward him, if he weren't such a dishonest, racebaiter himself.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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  10. #230
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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreetVixen View Post
    How is it different? I have an insurance plan. My money is my money, and I use it for the services I get with my insurance. I pay fees and I get a service, just like with any hedge fund I have invested in, or managed.

    It might be news to you, but insurance companies are not piling these premiums collected by insurance policy holders. By your logic, a hedge fund is not any different from an insurance company.



    I am saying, "you get out what you paid in with insurance." I asked, "How is that socialist?"

    Address my words, not your assumptions.



    Haven't you already learned by now that playing that card doesn't work out well for you? Also, I haven't claimed to work on Wall Street, ever. Since I don't like bragging about my work, I'll let my about me page do it for me.
    Damn girl....Just damn....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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