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Thread: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So you needed 2000++ pages of every progressive wish under the sun, and the redistribution of wealth to solve that? I don't think so...
    Thanks for the admission that you did forget.

    Millions haven't.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Thanks for the admission that you did forget.

    Millions haven't.
    Come on goof, man up and try to be honest a little would ya? You're argument for the ACA is that we needed it for among other reasons, to stop the practice of Insurance companies dropping, or refusing to pay for the chronically ill, and diagnosed diseased. But your wording to that, among other aspects of thought, are troubling...There could very well have been legislation, or regulation that could have addressed the practice of pre existing conditions without having to attempt to take over a 6th of the nations economy, and using it for a wealth redistribution scheme. That's just the excuse.

    The thing is that the more this thing comes out, the more the Gruber's of the progressive wet dream come out and blow the whistle on you lying bastards...The real problem is that progressives think that the public is stupid, when in reality we called it exactly like it is now playing out, years ago....And that burns you up. So next will come nothing of substance, just insults, and temper tantrums...Progressives are children, and need to STFU and go away, they are destructive.
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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Come on goof, man up and try to be honest a little would ya? You're argument for the ACA is that we needed it for among other reasons, to stop the practice of Insurance companies dropping, or refusing to pay for the chronically ill, and diagnosed diseased. But your wording to that, among other aspects of thought, are troubling...There could very well have been legislation, or regulation that could have addressed the practice of pre existing conditions without having to attempt to take over a 6th of the nations economy, and using it for a wealth redistribution scheme. That's just the excuse.

    The thing is that the more this thing comes out, the more the Gruber's of the progressive wet dream come out and blow the whistle on you lying bastards...The real problem is that progressives think that the public is stupid, when in reality we called it exactly like it is now playing out, years ago....And that burns you up. So next will come nothing of substance, just insults, and temper tantrums...Progressives are children, and need to STFU and go away, they are destructive.
    You really can't solve the problem of pre-existing conditions in a way that won't 'take over a sixth of the nations economy' (what a stupid phrase....who took it over?) because it's at the heart of affordable widespread coverage. The free rider problem is immense.

    If it was easy, it could have been done a long time ago.

    I find it funny that I'm bothering to explain this to a guy who forgot pre-existing conditions were a primary reason for implementing this law!
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    This may be a little elementary a question here, but could you explain who was ever denied buying health insurance?
    A good bait question for sure.

    No one was denied the opportunity to purchase health insurance even on the open (private health care) market. But lots of people were denied coverage.

    Many people who had pre-existing conditions were either denied coverage OR the cost was very expensive even in state-sponsored high-risk pools (which few people knew anything about until after the PPACA/ObamaCare was enacted). So, yes, it's quite possible for most people to find almost any health insurance policy they want that would fit their needs, but in some cases it was just too expensive and in other cases some were denied coverage because they were too high a health care risk.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 12-01-14 at 04:56 PM.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Come on goof, man up and try to be honest a little would ya? You're argument for the ACA is that we needed it for among other reasons, to stop the practice of Insurance companies dropping, or refusing to pay for the chronically ill, and diagnosed diseased. But your wording to that, among other aspects of thought, are troubling...There could very well have been legislation, or regulation that could have addressed the practice of pre existing conditions without having to attempt to take over a 6th of the nations economy, and using it for a wealth redistribution scheme. That's just the excuse.

    The thing is that the more this thing comes out, the more the Gruber's of the progressive wet dream come out and blow the whistle on you lying bastards...The real problem is that progressives think that the public is stupid, when in reality we called it exactly like it is now playing out, years ago....And that burns you up. So next will come nothing of substance, just insults, and temper tantrums...Progressives are children, and need to STFU and go away, they are destructive.
    But federal health care expenditures (Medicare, SSDI & Medicaid) was already taking up at least 6% of the federal budget long before the PPACA. All kinds of reports, independent studies and documentaries have already confirmed this as fact.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    All I'm saying is I understand what both sides want on this issue. In principle, Republicans don't like various part of ObamaCare, specifically, the taxation on individuals and businesses, the authoritarianism from the Executive Branch, the excessive spending and especially the expansion of and perceived access to government health care to immigrants. Ideologically, they don't want to give a Democrat President a victory at any level.

    Democrats support this law in large part because it insures a large number of people who weren't insured previously, provides what they believe to be greater insurance benefit coverage by stabilizing/standardizing essential benefits, provides for funding (in the future at least) through taxation making health care exchanges self-sustaining and forcing government to find ways to "make it all work" while retaining the hardline on maintaining funding measures in the immediate future.

    Could these problems be fixed if both sides at least tried to understand where the others sees problems with the law and really work to resolve them while also maintaining broad reach in access to health care, self-sustaining funding without federal funding (tax dollars/appropriations) and reducing the size or scope of government? Sure! But such will never happen as long as both sides remain so firmly entrenched.

    Personally, I've always believed Universal Health Care or a system similar to the CLASS Act would be far superior to what we got because at least with either EVERYONE would have a buy-in into the health care system similar to what Medicare now provides only you get to use it much sooner rather than paying into it for 35-40 years and only being able to use it once you retire. But you can never get Congress to stop the stupidity and just do it without trying to win votes by downing the other side for making common sense decisions.
    Our government, all levels combined and all programs combined, as of 2008 already paid for about half of the total national healthcare bill, it worked out to about $4,000 per citizen, which is roughly the cost of a Obamacare HSA compliant Bronze level policy in most states. So having universal insurance, particularly if it was a major medical policy, isn't as "unaffordable" as most people think it is.

    It's just a matter of streamlining the system and consolidating all of these different government programs into one plan which provides identical coverage for every American. I pitched this idea to my (moderate republican) congressman a year before Obamacare became law, he couldn't seem to grasp the concept.

    My plan was a compromise, it provided for "universal" coverage, which should have pleased dems, yet it didn't involve any more taxes and would have significantly lowered the private sector cost of having employees, which should have pleased republicans, so I thought that it would be politically viable. Apparently, the two parties aren't interested in a reasonable compromise, even if it gives both of them what they want most.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    This may be a little elementary a question here, but could you explain who was ever denied buying health insurance?
    My wife for one.

    She was denied due to a minor pre-existing condition that has never caused us a penny of healthcare costs.

    She now has affordable (unsubsized) insurance, due to Obamacare.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So you needed 2000++ pages of every progressive wish under the sun, and the redistribution of wealth to solve that? I don't think so...
    What's your solution?

    Anyhow, all insurance is redistributive in nature.

    It's a form of socialism. A bunch of people pool their money together, and then whoever needs it gets it. There is no purer form of socialism than that.

    Under purely capitalistic healthcare system, everyone would just pay directly for their own healthcare needs, with no third party (insurance company or government) redistributing the money. That's actually the system that would probably work best, for all except for catistrophic care.
    Last edited by imagep; 12-01-14 at 05:31 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  9. #219
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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    My wife for one.

    She was denied due to a minor pre-existing condition that has never caused us a penny of healthcare costs.

    She now has affordable (unsubsized) insurance, due to Obamacare.
    That's great for you Scott, but you understand you are not the norm right? Also, like I said, we all understand that pre existing conditions were a problem, but you don't need 2000 plus pages to rectify that.

    What's your solution?
    I don't have to have a solution, I am not in government...But if I were, I wouldn't have voted for this piece of crap...
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    What's your solution?

    Anyhow, all insurance is redistributive in nature.

    It's a form of socialism. A bunch of people pool their money together, and then whoever needs it gets it. There is no purer form of socialism than that.

    Under purely capitalistic healthcare system, everyone would just pay directly for their own healthcare needs, with no third party (insurance company or government) redistributing the money. That's actually the system that would probably work best, for all except for catistrophic care.
    This is completely wrong.

    You pay someone, in this case a company, to take some of your risk for a thing that has not yet happened. If it has happened it is no longer a risk. Companies use statistics to determine how much risk they can "buy" for a particular fee.

    What all of this idiotic healthcare is today is prepaid services. If we could get the government completely out of health care we would have a wide variety of products to choose from across a wide variety of price points.

    It is socialism that drives up cost, lowers quality and makes a very great many of us angry.

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