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Thread: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

  1. #191
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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by JumpinJack View Post
    I agree that this is a stunt. If the Republicans want to do something about illegal immigration, they have had years to do so. They can pass a strong bill in January. But they won't. They do not aim to solve the issue or make headway on it. They merely play games and pull stunts, without ever actually DOING anything.
    Under this President there is the strong belief among Republicans that the Executive will simply take any compromise deal, sign it into law, and then refuse to enforce the portions that it doesn't like, effectively destroying the compromise, and ruining the trust that would be necessary for it to occur in the first place.

    ....now gosh..... I wonder where they could have gotten that idea....

    For all their railing against the ACA, I have yet to see a serious health care reform bill passed by the Republicans.
    Here you go

    It's easy to criticize. It's more difficult to actually do something about a problem.
    The Executive does not have the Constitutional Authority to demand that other branches of Government either A) accept its' prioritization of issues or B) pass legislation in accordance with its preferences.

  2. #192
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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    I think they are going to HAVE TO now. Otherwise, they lose upwards of 100% of the latino vote.
    They no longer have the ability to. Obama made sure of that. Compromise on this issue is dead until he leaves because legislative compromise requires trust in the Rule of Law that no longer exists.

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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    They no longer have the ability to. Obama made sure of that. Compromise on this issue is dead until he leaves because legislative compromise requires trust in the Rule of Law that no longer exists.
    They totally have the ability to- what a whiny cry....Obama uses EO's so we can't pass anything!

    There is a Senate immigration bill being blocked by the house that, if brought to the floor, would pass.

    But Boehner can't control the nuts in his own party that are invested in sermonizing immigrants- aka Steve King and the TeaPartiers.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    They totally have the ability to- what a whiny cry....Obama uses EO's so we can't pass anything!
    No. Any compromise we make will be wrecked by an Executive that refuses to enforce the law. Hence, no compromise can be made.

    I tell you what, I will sell you my car for $500 bucks. It's worth $4,000. I promise. Just wire me the $500 and I'll get it to you.

    Oh, I have a history of fraud? Why should that impact whether or not you send me the 5 Benjamin's?

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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No. Any compromise we make will be wrecked by an Executive that refuses to enforce the law. Hence, no compromise can be made.

    I tell you what, I will sell you my car for $500 bucks. It's worth $4,000. I promise. Just wire me the $500 and I'll get it to you.

    Oh, I have a history of fraud? Why should that impact whether or not you send me the 5 Benjamin's?
    Well, then the GOP should just resign en masse and leave government!

    You have advanced an incredibly inept argument. I actually thought you were somewhat rational before this comment.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Well, then the GOP should just resign en masse and leave government!
    No. Firstly, they were elected to their office and should serve accordingly. That is their duty. Secondly, it's time to start defining the parties. Now that Harry Reid is no longer able to stop bills from passing, let's send up some stuff so that Democrats can vote on it and kill it publicly if they wish, and take the heat for doing so.

    You have advanced an incredibly inept argument. I actually thought you were somewhat rational before this comment.
    I realize that you don't have any kind of a counter other than the ridiculous hyperbole above. However, that doesn't actually make the fact that the President just killed the necessary underpinning of major compromises (trust that they will be followed) any less true.

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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Thanks for your input, and you may be right. We'll see if a court tosses the lawsuit.

    Here in Canada, the Supreme Court is often asked by the government to provide advice on the legality of executive/legislative action. I find it to be a reasonable approach to complicated constitutional issues, even if I don't always agree with the Supreme Court's rulings. I find it odd that, in America, a minor dispute about jurisdiction or Congress's power to legislate and fund can only be settled with the heavy hammer of impeachment.

    I would also note that the Supreme Court did actually take up and rule on the issue of Obama's declaration that the Senate was in recess and he could make appointments to the LRB, as one example where dispute between the two branches went the court route.
    Actually, the question of appropriations (funding) where the PPACA is concerned could easily be remedied if Congress acted accordingly, i.e., a) appropriate funds as outlined in the law itself or b) modify the law by removing the word "Sec, HHS is authorized to appropriate" or words to that effect from the law wherever it appears. Of course, they'll do neither because that 25% of congressional membership that has brought about this lawsuit (towit, House Republicans) doesn't want to do it. They'd rather continue to use political and procedural tactics to undermine existing law just to win political points rather than fully acknowledge that by working with their Democrat colleagues they could fix the law even if it means "repeal and replace" the PPACA with something that still provides health insurance but resolves the process issues within the law. Yes, I know there have been several attempts to repeal Obamacare, but there haven't been any serious proposals (bills) to replace it with anything substantial.

    As it stands, the SCOTUS will likely rule in favor of the Obama Administration for the reason I've outlined previously - lack of harm to and/or standing by 25% of Congress (House Republicans) and the very fact that the law itself grants the Sec. HHS appropriations authority even if ultimately such funds come directly from funds within their own budget after such appropriations were initially granted by Congress but not fully used by the appropriate Department towhich they were granted.

    I'm reading the lawsuit and the sections of the PPACA that are in question and it's very clear that despite the enumerated appropriations power granted to Congress, the law does authorize the Sec, HHS to withdraw funds from the Treasury in a variety of ways and in some cases indefinitely for as long as the law stands. It's no wonder the GOP wants to repeal it! But the SCOTUS will likely rule that although Congress has the power of the purse, the law grants such appropriations and the only way to remedy the problem is for Congress to either: a) fulfill the very duty towhich it is attempting to get the SCOTUS to do for them - rewrite the law, or b) impeach the President.

    In the end, the SCOTUS will probably rule that Congress has other remedies to fix this problem including impeachment, but the problem with going the impeachment route is the lawsuit isn't directed at the President. It's directed at the Sec, HHS and the Sec, Treasury. Thus, their beef really isn't with him. It's with certain Cabinet heads within his Administration.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Read more @: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    So it begins. Suspecting this to go absolutely nowhere. Just another stunt. [/FONT][/COLOR]


    Do you mean "stunt" as in "you can keep your plan.....?

    Or as in giving a select number of illegals a temporary pass that does nothing to solve any immigration issue? That kid of stunt?


    Or is it in league with a faked faint the day after having said "I never said that....."

    The type of "stunt" is important. Meanwhile, if it is a "stunt" I am sure that Obama's management of the courts will enable the judges to see through it and deny the suit...if it's a stunt that is
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Actually, the question of appropriations (funding) where the PPACA is concerned could easily be remedied if Congress acted accordingly, i.e., a) appropriate funds as outlined in the law itself or b) modify the law by removing the word "Sec, HHS is authorized to appropriate" or words to that effect from the law wherever it appears. Of course, they'll do neither because that 25% of congressional membership that has brought about this lawsuit (towit, House Republicans) doesn't want to do it. They'd rather continue to use political and procedural tactics to undermine existing law just to win political points rather than fully acknowledge that by working with their Democrat colleagues they could fix the law even if it means "repeal and replace" the PPACA with something that still provides health insurance but resolves the process issues within the law. Yes, I know there have been several attempts to repeal Obamacare, but there haven't been any serious proposals (bills) to replace it with anything substantial.

    As it stands, the SCOTUS will likely rule in favor of the Obama Administration for the reason I've outlined previously - lack of harm to and/or standing by 25% of Congress (House Republicans) and the very fact that the law itself grants the Sec. HHS appropriations authority even if ultimately such funds come directly from funds within their own budget after such appropriations were initially granted by Congress but not fully used by the appropriate Department towhich they were granted.

    I'm reading the lawsuit and the sections of the PPACA that are in question and it's very clear that despite the enumerated appropriations power granted to Congress, the law does authorize the Sec, HHS to withdraw funds from the Treasury in a variety of ways and in some cases indefinitely for as long as the law stands. It's no wonder the GOP wants to repeal it! But the SCOTUS will likely rule that although Congress has the power of the purse, the law grants such appropriations and the only way to remedy the problem is for Congress to either: a) fulfill the very duty towhich it is attempting to get the SCOTUS to do for them - rewrite the law, or b) impeach the President.

    In the end, the SCOTUS will probably rule that Congress has other remedies to fix this problem including impeachment, but the problem with going the impeachment route is the lawsuit isn't directed at the President. It's directed at the Sec, HHS and the Sec, Treasury. Thus, their beef really isn't with him. It's with certain Cabinet heads within his Administration.
    No disrespect, but based on the rationale you've outlined above, do you honestly think that the Democrats in the Senate would allow a vote and adopt a bill from the House that altered the ACA in the way you suggest and even if by some miracle they did, the President wouldn't veto it?
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: House GOP File Lawsuit Against Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    No disrespect, but based on the rationale you've outlined above, do you honestly think that the Democrats in the Senate would allow a vote and adopt a bill from the House that altered the ACA in the way you suggest and even if by some miracle they did, the President wouldn't veto it?
    I guess it depends on what changes are being proposed. You have to remember there were two basic objectives behind the PPACA:

    1) to provide access to insurance coverage to as many people as possible;

    2) to provide various funding mechanism to pay for health insurance exchanges at both the state and federal levels.

    The goal, of course, is to increase access to health care while bringing down the cost. If such a bill continued to meet such objectives without forcing people to change their existing health care coverage, increase the cost or eliminate it all together all while being self-sustaining financially, I don't see why such a bill would fail to pass muster.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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