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Thread: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Yes, yes, I know MSM bad, evil Jew conspiracy. From where I see it. What matters to me is the way Republicans at the base are bending over backwards to say that this is illegal. However, the only response Congressional Repubs. have is to defund the EO. How is it possible that an illegal EO is passed and the best response Congress has is to defund it? Seems rather silly.
    When your only tool is a hammer then you must address all problems as if they were nails.

    The only real powers that congress critters have over the POTUS is to control funding, override vetoes or to impeach. The repubicants lack the votes to do anything but to pass bills in the Senate and even that may require a demorat vote or two.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    it is fairly obvious that the Administration was hoping that they would be able to spark talk of impeachment, which they (probably correctly) judge would be a political victory for them. Absent Impeachment, Censure and Defunding are the two main Congressional tools.



    Obama has gone from the Candidate who ran against Bush's expansions of Executive Power to the President who pushed it far beyond those bounds.


    But you know what? It's okay. Because he's setting a precedent. And you know what the next Republican President is likely to think are Issues We Must Solve Now? Tax and Entitlement Reform. And ya'll are going to scream and I am going to laugh......
    Will you still be laughing when the Treasury goes bankrupt?
    I fight against the ignorant, irresponsible, and/or closed-minded.
    This group is the worst enemy of America and its freedoms. It includes, but is not limited to, all Trump supporters.

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So Obama acted illegally? I'll wait for the lawsuits.
    The lawsuits are difficult when the Attorney General is the President's toady (or possibly the other way around.)

    Past Presidents, including Reagan, have used the executive order judiciously and almost always with the unofficial consent of Congress. The President can in a very limited way use executive order to correct an unintended oversight or limited unintended consequence of a piece of legislation. You will note that there was no public concern, no outcries of foul, little negative press in Reagan's immigration EO. He did not announce that he would ignore and refuse to enforce existing law. He didn't wholesale rewrite existing law.

    Obama is acting as a would be dictator apparently with full intent to embarrass and punish the Republicans. In the process he is setting a precedent that could forever alter the letter and law of the Constitution and the separation of powers. And I don't know if there is anybody in Washington or the private sector with the cojones to stop him.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    This is basically Obama flipping off the Constitution. He HATES the Constitution, as most liberals do.

    And if he gets away with this, he will have successfully destroyed the Constitution. It will be worthless.

    This is virtually an act of aggression to take down the American system. That's what it is at its core.

    And if he's successful, there are troubling times ahead.

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Oh wow, now we have to explain to you that The Constitution is the law of the land and that violating The Constitution is illegal.
    So no specific part of the constitution? Okay. I'll wait.

    Now, unless you can validate the president's authority to change the law, via executive order, you have no choice but to agree that this executive order is illegal.
    So Obama doesn't have the power to change domestic policy through EOs?

    Executive orders: What they are and how they work.

    Presidents have used that language, along with their constitutional powers as commander and chief over the nation's military, to issue executive orders—whether it be to change domestic policy or go to war. And they are legally binding—the U.S. Supreme Court has upheld all but two legal challenges to them (see more on that below).

    Most executive orders stem from a president's desire to bypass Congress. The legislative body is not required to approve any executive order, nor can it overturn an order. The best it can do if it doesn't like an executive order is to pass a law to cut funding for the order's implementation. But even then, the president can veto such a defunding law.
    It seems that's exactly what the EO is being used for, and Congress is threatening to do exactly what it can threaten. None of that makes Obama's EO illegal. As I said, I'll wait for the lawsuits.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    And that is where the dishonesty comes in to play. Obama is not changing the laws. He is making a decision on how to enforce the laws, which is his right. Congress cannot tell him how to do his job. That is unconstitutional. If they feel that Obama is not performing his duties properly, then they should impeach him. That IS Constitutional.
    Green cards are regulated by law. The president has no authority to fast track green cards. He can't issue social security numbers. He doesn't have the aurhority to make someone a citizen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Congress laying out how laws are to be enforced IS unconstitutional.
    That is incorrect. For example, Congress dictates that A) we shall have a tax law and that B) it shall be enforced by the IRS who shall C) be staffed in such and such a manner. It is where enforcement of the law is not laid out that the Executive is to decide.

    Because - and, this is important - the Executive signed that law into effect.

    Once again, if Congress feels that Obama is being to selective in enforcing the laws, then they should impeach him.
    they have the right to, and they would be right to. That is what Obama wants, however, and you know that as well as I - because he perceives (rightly) that there is no way Democrats in the Senate would vote for his impeachment, meaning that Republican's wouldn't be able to get the votes necessary to convict and that it would be a massive political victory for Democrats.


    Think about that, however, for a second. Do you really want a Presidential system where his power is limited to "I can do anything I like so long as I can be sure that a supermajority of the Senate doesn't impeach me for it"?



    This is the Immigration equivalent of (for example) a Republican President instituting a Flat Tax by simply declaring that the IRS shall no longer collect taxes above a flat 15% of income, or reforming Entitlements in a similar fashion, or instituting a national Right to Work law. All four of those items are illegal for POTUS to take without the Legislature. But if you really want to set the precedent....

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    The lawsuits are difficult when the Attorney General is the President's toady (or possibly the other way around.)

    Past Presidents, including Reagan, have used the executive order judiciously and almost always with the unofficial consent of Congress. The President can in a very limited way use executive order to correct an unintended oversight or limited unintended consequence of a piece of legislation. You will note that there was no public concern, no outcries of foul, little negative press in Reagan's immigration EO. He did not announce that he would ignore and refuse to enforce existing law. He didn't wholesale rewrite existing law.

    Obama is acting as a would be dictator apparently with full intent to embarrass and punish the Republicans. In the process he is setting a precedent that could forever alter the letter and law of the Constitution and the separation of powers. And I don't know if there is anybody in Washington or the private sector with the cojones to stop him.
    EOs don't rewrite laws. Please stop the hyperbole. There's enough of it.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    Will you still be laughing when the Treasury goes bankrupt?
    Yup. Given that it will be unreformed entitlements that cause it to become so.

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Grandstanding and claims by idiots like Cruz don't change much. Congressional Republicans have made the argument that they're not going to fund it. Well, that's within their power, but none of that makes Obama's EO illegal. Can you tell us what is illegal about it? Or you gonna do like Fenton?
    Only Congress has the right to decide what America's immigration polices will be, not the President.

    If Obama wanted to write our laws he should have stayed in the Senate.

    Congress writes our laws. The President took an oath of office to enforce those laws.

    Obama failed to uphold the oath of office and has refused to enforce the laws that our on the books that he doesn't like. Same with that racist Eric Holder.

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