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Thread: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Yes it does. So does the House's various immigration bills.
    Well, then the Constitution seems pretty clear to me....Article 1 Section 7

    "All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives..."

    U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 7 - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

    So, this to me is just more backwards legislating....Because demo's don't like that Repubs controlled the house, doesn't mean that they can just throw the process out the window...
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Well, then the Constitution seems pretty clear to me....Article 1 Section 7

    "All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives..."

    U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 7 - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

    So, this to me is just more backwards legislating....Because demo's don't like that Repubs controlled the house, doesn't mean that they can just throw the process out the window...
    The House is free to take the Senate bill and use it as a basis for their own bill including whatever changes they like in their new bill. Then they can send that to the Senate

    Besides, Article 1 Section 7 applies to bills that raise revenue, not bills that spend it

    The contentious issue isn't origination. It's the fact that the right refuses to consider any reform bill that contains a "path to citizenship" (even though the majority of americans want one) and the moderates and liberals refuse to consider a reform bill that does not contain a "path to citizenship"
    Last edited by sangha; 11-27-14 at 12:04 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, AlbqOwl.

    Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours from my house!
    Hidee ho, Polgara and Happy Thanksgiving to you too. Wouldn't it be great if our government gave us a real Thanksgiving blessing with some responsible legislation instead of self serving nonsense?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    The path to citizenship is laid out in the laws already on the books. Why is that such an issue?

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The House is free to take the Senate bill and use it as a basis for their own bill including whatever changes they like in their new bill. Then they can send that to the Senate

    Besides, Article 1 Section 7 applies to bills that raise revenue, not bills that spend it

    The contentious issue isn't origination. It's the fact that the right refuses to consider any reform bill that contains a "path to citizenship" (even though the majority of americans want one) and the moderates and liberals refuse to consider a reform bill that does not contain a "path to citizenship"
    With all due respect, that is not normal order, and you know it...I understand that because the Repubs took the house, you'd rather have the demo majority in the senate dictate what should be done, but that is not how things are supposed to work...The house doesn't have to take up anything the senate tries to pass down, and bluster from those demo's and even the President is useless. Our branches are separate, but equal...You may be right on the absolute reading of Article 1 Section 7, only if you now all of the sudden want to stick to the strict adherence of wording (Generally because it suits you), however, as we both know regular order is that the House originates a bill, then the Senate comes up with their own version, and they go to committee to hammer out the differences and come up with a final version...To do it the way you want is only because Harry Reid would still run the show, and not Repubs like the people voted for....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by jwzg View Post
    The path to citizenship is laid out in the laws already on the books. Why is that such an issue?
    Because it's not working. It needs reform.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    With all due respect, that is not normal order, and you know it...I understand that because the Repubs took the house, you'd rather have the demo majority in the senate dictate what should be done, but that is not how things are supposed to work...The house doesn't have to take up anything the senate tries to pass down, and bluster from those demo's and even the President is useless. Our branches are separate, but equal...You may be right on the absolute reading of Article 1 Section 7, only if you now all of the sudden want to stick to the strict adherence of wording (Generally because it suits you), however, as we both know regular order is that the House originates a bill, then the Senate comes up with their own version, and they go to committee to hammer out the differences and come up with a final version...To do it the way you want is only because Harry Reid would still run the show, and not Repubs like the people voted for....
    It is not an "absolute reading". It is what the text says.

    But you're right that the House has no obligation to consider bills passed in the Senate. The converse is equally true - the Senate has no obligation to consider bills passed in the House, though that won't stop the right from incessantly whining about it.

    So no, the "regular order" is not that all bills originate in the house. That only applies to bills that raise revenue (ie taxing bills)
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Hidee ho, Polgara and Happy Thanksgiving to you too. Wouldn't it be great if our government gave us a real Thanksgiving blessing with some responsible legislation instead of self serving nonsense?
    Maybe we're hoping for the impossible? Seems so, but we'll see soon enough what the new Congress is able to accomplish! Their job is not going to be easy, but millions of people are rooting for them!

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    I wonder if somebody could provide a reasoned rationale for why a pathway to citizenship should be offered to people who have thumbed their noses at our laws and have benefitted greatly at our expense while others respect and obey our laws as they patiently wait for admission to this country?

    Can anybody tell me how amnesty for millions of illegals will not affect corporate behavior? Why should an employer who is mandated to provide Obamacare for his/her employees keep those employees when he can lay off his blue collar workers and replace with illegals who presumably won't be eligible for Obamacare? How can millions of legalized illegals not make our more unemployable Americans even more hard core unemployable?

    When Reagan, with consent of Congress, gave Amnesty to 3 million illegals on the promise that no more illegals would be allowed in, all he did was place a flashing neon sign over America: "Ya'll come and if you lay low for a bit, they'll let you stay forever." So now we have 11 to 20 million more illegals that the Senate bill would have made legal without first securing the border. What makes them think that this concept will not have the same result as that in the Reagan administration?

    Remember the definition of insanity as doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Because it's not working. It needs reform.
    What exactly is not working?

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