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Thread: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

  1. #281
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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    No I am right. an EO is nothing more than a memo to explain or to clarify existing law. What Obama did was change an existing law with his EO which makes it unconstitutional.
    There is no confusion or ambiguity about our current immigration law. it is pretty clear that people who do not have proper documentation to be here need to be deported.



    there is a difference here if you can't see it then I don't know what to tell you. while enforcement of the law might not been fully engaged it was still being enforced.



    the AG is not congress and congress is the only body that can approve work visas or the number of visas. the president doesn't have the power on his own to expand the program.
    which is why he isn't going to be able to do what he wants because the house republicans are simply not going to allow him to do it.

    according to the law yes he does. he has no choice unless he can get congress to change the law. he doesn't have the authority (by Obama's own words) to do what he did.

    which is why states and others already have lawsuits in the pipeline.

    These people disagree

    What is a presidential executive order?
    An executive order is a directive by the President of the United States that has the power of a federal law. Presidents might issue executive orders to create committees or organizations like the Peace Corps. In general, though, Presidents use executive orders to direct and manage how the federal government operates.
    Source USA.gov.


    Congress specifically delegated to the AG the ability to make exceptions for illegals as he sees fit. congress delegating it's nominal responsibilities to executive agencies is commonplace. It happens all the time.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Sorry. I meant money WORD not world. And I didn't say anything at all about them not understanding the legislation. That's Pelosi's job to pass legislation without knowing what's in it. I think they DID understand the legislation well enough to know the pitfalls that were in it. But I don't think I'll ever get you to refer to what I actually said rather than what you seem to want me to have said, so have a good evening and a Happy Thanksgiving tomorrow.
    So you're saying the immigration bill is like ACA? Something that reforms the immigration system is like something that reforms a completely different system? That's screwy

    Again, the only thing you mention that they have in common is that they're both long bills.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Obama admits to changing the law. This is an admission of guilt.

    Obama Puzzled by Pro-Amnesty Hecklers: 'I Just Took an Action to Change the Law!'
    Interesting that this Freudian slip happened. I wonder if that's going gain any traction of significance, or change the situation much. Also interesting that a constitutional professor, such as Obama claims to be, would make such a statement in the face of the contortion of the prosecutorial discretion aspect of his immigration policy action.
    the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigation

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    My other points are1)if both houses of congress are determined to pass Immigration Reform, there would be some communication - some negotiations, at least, of compromise because, according to the Constitution, one immigration bill must pass both houses and the bills are so diverse. (2)This negotiation process would, most likely, be long and drawn out as either house attempts to have its favorite form of immigration passed. (3) But, there have been no negotiations between houses and this has frustrated a gung ho BO so he established an executive action on Immigration Reform. (4)That's not, according to The Constitution, the role of presidents in the making of laws. A president's role in the making of laws is either yes I like a potential law drawn up by congress or no I don't. At best according to precedent, the president may clarify a law drwan up by congress... not write it. (5)Unless you consider BO's executive action on immigration a new precedent where the president may write law. (6)So, we'll have government workers from every branch of government voicing their favorites for Immigration Reform. Believe me, the judiciary will be asked to weigh in on this matter sooner or later.
    1) The issue isn't so much between the two houses of congress as it is between the right and everyone else. The right adamantly refuses to pass a bill that includes a "path to citizenship" (aka "amnesty") even though a majority of americans (and a number of republicans in congress) support one. The House (dominated by the right) won't consider a bill that includes one and the Senate (dominated by moderates and liberals) won't consider a bill that does not include one.

    2 & 3) Because of the intractable nature of this conflict, neither side sees any point in negotiations.

    4, 5, & 6) There is nothing unconstitutional about Obama's actions. The immigration laws on the books, passed by Congress, grant various Federal officers (President, AG, Sec'y of DHS) the authority to do the things they have done.

    No laws are being written by Obama. Laws are being followed and adhered to.


    http://www.nilc.org/document.html?id=754

    General authority for defered action exists under Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) 103(a), 8 U.S.C. 1103(a), which grants the Secretary of Homeland Security the authority to enforce the immigration laws. Though no statutes oregulations delineate defered action in specific terms, the U.S. Supreme Court has made clear that decisions to initate or terminate enforcement procedings fall squarely within the authority of the Executive. In the immigration context, the Executive Branch has exercised its general enforcement authority to grant defered action since at least 1971. Federal courts have acknowledged the existence of this executive power at least as far back as the mid–1970s.5
    Parole–in–place refers to a form of parole granted by the Executive Branch under
    the authority of INA 212(d)(5), 8 U.S.C. 182(d)(5).
    Under this provision, the Atorney
    General “may . . in his discretion parole into the United States temporarily under such
    conditons as he may prescribe only on a case–by–case basis for urgent humanitarian
    reasons or significant public benefit any alien aplying for admision to the United
    States.”7 Parole permits a noncitzen to remain lawfuly in the United States, although
    parole does not constiute an “admision” under the INA. Individuals who have ben
    paroled are eligible for work authorization
    Defered enforced departure, often refered to as DED, is a form of prosecutorial
    discretion that is closely related to defered action. Almost every Administration since
    President Dwight D. Eisenhower has granted DED or the analogous “Extended Voluntary
    Departure” to at least one group of noncitzens.15 As with defered action, executive
    authority to grant defered enforced departure and extended voluntary departure exists
    under the general authority to enforce the immigration laws as set out in INA 103(a), 8
    U.S.C. 1103(a)
    .1
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    So you're saying the immigration bill is like ACA? Something that reforms the immigration system is like something that reforms a completely different system? That's screwy

    Again, the only thing you mention that they have in common is that they're both long bills.
    As I said, we are not communicating and you don't seem to be able to honestly report what I have posted. I'm pretty sure others are able to read and understand what I said, but it's no big deal. Again I'll wish you a Happy Thanksgiving.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Interesting that this Freudian slip happened. I wonder if that's going gain any traction of significance, or change the situation much. Also interesting that a constitutional professor, such as Obama claims to be, would make such a statement in the face of the contortion of the prosecutorial discretion aspect of his immigration policy action.
    I don't think it was a slip-of-the-lip. He meant to say it and is daring someone to do something about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    As I said, we are not communicating and you don't seem to be able to honestly report what I have posted. I'm pretty sure others are able to read and understand what I said, but it's no big deal. Again I'll wish you a Happy Thanksgiving.
    Greetings, AlbqOwl.

    Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours from my house!

  8. #288
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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The senate *did* present a comprehensive immigration reform bill and it passed on a bipartisan vote. Unfortunately, the House has refused to take action. Boehner declared it dead on arrival.
    Mornin' Sangha....Tell me, does the immigration bill that the Senate passed include spending of any kind?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    As I said, we are not communicating and you don't seem to be able to honestly report what I have posted. I'm pretty sure others are able to read and understand what I said, but it's no big deal. Again I'll wish you a Happy Thanksgiving.
    I read what you said. The only similarity you mention is the size of the bill.

    Enjoy your celebration
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #290
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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Mornin' Sangha....Tell me, does the immigration bill that the Senate passed include spending of any kind?
    Yes it does. So does the House's various immigration bills.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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