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Thread: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Immigration reform has such a loaded and diverse definition among political parties. Does the US fix the problems that continually pester the US and drive up the population of undocumenteds or does the US claim a portion of the latest round of undocumenteds that enter the US by making them US citizens? The dems primarily want the latter. The GOPs primarily want the former. Why not present a bill that puts forward all points of viewCertainly, being an advocate of the former has a better chance of maintaining the population of undocumenteds and maintaining the costs to governments for, for example, education and health care associated with legalizing undocumenteds. One could also admit the cost of border patrol (gates, paper work,etc.) associated with maintaining and controlling undocumented populations could be enormous.

    Seems real simple why BO (the prez) is instituting an executive action on 'Immigration Reform', now, even though he waited (patiently?) for congress to come up with Immigration Reform: the next congress will be heavily influenced by GOPs. It's less likely a GOP-controlled congress will present a bill on Immigration Reform that is acceptable to BO. Politically, BO can't be seen as a roadblock to 'Immigration Reform' WHEN he vetoes Immigration Reform bills that are heavily influenced by an GOP-controlled congress. Is it a forgone conclusion that a GOP-controlled congress will not allow compromises and influences from minority parties, BO? Maybe this is the ultimate lesson BO and the dems (and maybe the GOPS, too) need to learn: allow divergent voices and influences when bills are discussed and prepared when your party has majorities in congress. Why not present an Immigration Bill that attempts to, at least, compromise and attempts to put forward all points of view? I know compromise isn't the atmosphere of today's American politics. That needs to change, too.
    Last edited by cabse5; 11-26-14 at 11:12 AM.

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    Immigration reform has such a loaded and diverse definition among political parties. Does the US fix the problems that continually pester the US and drive up the population of undocumenteds or does the US claim a portion of the latest round of undocumenteds that enter the US by making them US citizens? The dems primarily want the latter. The GOPs primarily want the former. Why not present a bill that puts forward all points of viewCertainly, being an advocate of the former has a better chance of maintaining the population of undocumenteds and maintaining the costs to governments for, for example, education and health care associated with legalizing undocumenteds. One could also admit the cost of border patrol (gates, paper work,etc.) associated with maintaining and controlling undocumented populations could be enormous.

    Seems real simple why BO (the prez) is instituting an executive action on 'Immigration Reform', now, even though he waited (patiently?) for congress to come up with Immigration Reform: the next congress will be heavily influenced by GOPs. It's less likely a GOP-controlled congress will present a bill on Immigration Reform that is acceptable to BO. Politically, BO can't be seen as a roadblock to 'Immigration Reform' WHEN he vetoes Immigration Reform bills that are heavily influenced by an GOP-controlled congress. Is it a forgone conclusion that a GOP-controlled congress will not allow compromises and influences from minority parties, BO? Maybe this is the ultimate lesson BO and the dems (and maybe the GOPS, too) need to learn: allow divergent voices and influences when bills are discussed and prepared when your party has majorities in congress. Why not present an Immigration Bill that attempts to, at least, compromise and attempts to put forward all points of view? I know compromise isn't the atmosphere of today's American politics. That needs to change, too.
    The senate *did* present a comprehensive immigration reform bill and it passed on a bipartisan vote. Unfortunately, the House has refused to take action. Boehner declared it dead on arrival.
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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The senate *did* present a comprehensive immigration reform bill and it passed on a bipartisan vote. Unfortunately, the House has refused to take action. Boehner declared it dead on arrival.
    Yes they did, thank goodness. The Senate bill was another one of those massive Obamacare like pieces of legislation that would almost certainly have had all sorts of unintended bad consequences just as Obamacare has had. The Senate bill did have support from 14 hardcore establishment Republicans who also supported George W. Bush's immigration policy that wasn't a great deal different. So I suppose that does make it bipartisan.

    The House Republicans are not willing to pass another piece of legislation like Obamacare no matter who originates it, and we can thank them for that.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Yes they did, thank goodness. The Senate bill was another one of those massive Obamacare like pieces of legislation that would almost certainly have had all sorts of unintended bad consequences just as Obamacare has had. The Senate bill did have support from 14 hardcore establishment Republicans who also supported George W. Bush's immigration policy that wasn't a great deal different. So I suppose that does make it bipartisan.

    The House Republicans are not willing to pass another piece of legislation like Obamacare no matter who originates it, and we can thank them for that.
    So IOW, no matter how large and complex the problem, the republicans in the House refuse to do their job.

    Of all the absurd excuses I've heard, "It's too complicated for me...Waaahhhh!" is the most pitiful
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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    So IOW, no matter how large and complex the problem, the republicans in the House refuse to do their job.

    Of all the absurd excuses I've heard, "It's too complicated for me...Waaahhhh!" is the most pitiful
    I'm sorry you interpreted my post that way, because I said nothing at all like that. So why did you?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The senate *did* present a comprehensive immigration reform bill and it passed on a bipartisan vote. Unfortunately, the House has refused to take action. Boehner declared it dead on arrival.
    It obviously didn't pass with a bipartisan vote from both houses of congress. And that's what the bill (the potential law) needs to move on to the president. And the president has to sign it, as well. Might be, a bill will have to be rewritten numerous times and numerous compromises reached before one bill on Immigration Reform is signed by BO. That's the American process to creating laws. In spite of Boehner. In spite of BO. In spite of Reid. In spite of congress a bill can be created by congress and signed by the president where it become law.

    I wonder did Boehner and his fellow house cohorts make any suggestions to make the bill more palatable?
    Did Reid and his fellow senate cohorts make any suggestions to make the bill more palatable?

    I know the answer to both is no. It's a my way or the highway kind of situation. Bad for American government. The president is continuing this same attitude.
    Last edited by cabse5; 11-26-14 at 03:07 PM.

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I'm sorry you interpreted my post that way, because I said nothing at all like that. So why did you?
    The only argument you presented against the Senate's immigration bill was that it was too big, so you did say that.
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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    It obviously didn't pass with a bipartisan vote from both houses of congress. And that's what the bill (the potential law) needs to move on to the president. And the president has to sign it, as well. Might be, a bill will have to be rewritten numerous times and numerous compromises reached before one bill on Immigration Reform is signed by BO. That's the American process to creating laws. In spite of Boehner. In spite of BO. In spite of Reid. In spite of congress a bill can be created by congress and signed by the president where it become law.

    I wonder did Boehner and his fellow house cohorts make any suggestions to make the bill more palatable?
    Did Reid and his fellow senate cohorts make any suggestions to make the bill more palatable?

    I know the answer to both is no. It's a my way or the highway kind of situation. Bad for American government. The president is continuing this same attitude.
    The answer to your 2nd question is obviously yes as demonstrated by the bipartisan support it got in the senate. The answer to your first is No. Boehner won't even talk about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    The House created their own Immigration Reform bill that was pigeonholed by Reid and the Senate.
    The Senate created their own Immigration Reform bill that was pigeonholed by Boehner and the House.

    I'm sorry. Let me clarify the questions for you:
    Did Reid and other Senate members make any suggestions to the House to make the House's bill more palatable to the Senate? No.
    Did Boehner and other House members make any suggestions to the Senate to make the Senate's bill more palatable to the House? No.

    I'm thinking there may either be a my way or highway or ambivalence of attitude towards Immigration Reform. BO is like gang busters on the issue.
    Last edited by cabse5; 11-26-14 at 03:40 PM.

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The only argument you presented against the Senate's immigration bill was that it was too big, so you did say that.
    No. That isn't what I said.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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