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Thread: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    Using this logic, if a policeman didn't stop everyone breaking the speed limit he would be violating his oath. He has no right to allow 3 or 5 mph over the limit and only stop those excessive speeders.
    Again, this is false - the President is not using "prosecutorial discretion" here, as he did with the Dreamers. He is overriding the law and creating a process out of thin air.

    Which is why he himself said for years that it would be illegal for him to do so.

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    Except you just said that entitlements would be "reformed." It doesn't seem like you know whether you're coming or going.
    the major entitlement programs are what are bankrupting us. If we can reform those, we don't go bankrupt.

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    If he's the one that defines "compassion," then I'll pass. Most of us do not base what we do on a political agenda, but give to charities and other organizations that actually help people instead. There was a deal made with somebody, or they would not have placed ads six months earlier for "chaperones" for those unattended children. Why do this to children, especially young ones?
    He appears to be the one that defines everything now simply daring the congress critters to try to stop him.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Again, this is false - the President is not using "prosecutorial discretion" here, as he did with the Dreamers. He is overriding the law and creating a process out of thin air.

    Which is why he himself said for years that it would be illegal for him to do so.
    He said it would be illegal to do exactly this? When?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    No one has gotten amnesty. We are simply choosing to not deport them today. That may seem like splitting hairs to you but it isn't. The next POTUS can start deporting people the day after he's sworn in.
    Had Obama just stopped there he would have been within his power. What he did, though, was lay out a path for them 'to come out of the shadows.' He laid out who qualifies and what they need to do. That is making law. Something a president lacks the power to do. There is really no debate about this. Obama, himself, made that argument. He simply went against the Constitution because he knew he could get away with it. You cant possibly think it coincidental that he waited until after his own re-election and the congressional elections to announce this. The speech he gave is what a president would do when he is trying to gain public support for congressional action. It is not something a US president should do on his own and without the consent of the American people. There is no excuse for this other than a naked grab for power.

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    He said it would be illegal to do exactly this? When?
    already covered.


    From the NY Times:

    WASHINGTON — President Obama is poised to ignore stark warnings that executive action on immigration would amount to “violating our laws” and would be “very difficult to defend legally.”

    Those warnings came not from Republican lawmakers but from Mr. Obama himself.

    For years, he has waved aside the demands of Latino activists and Democratic allies who begged him to act on his own, and he insisted publicly that a decision to shield millions of immigrants from deportation without an act of Congress would amount to nothing less than the dictates of a king, not a president...
    From the Washington Post:

    ...Question: Mr. President, my question will be as follows: With an executive order, could you be able to stop deportations of the students? And if that’s so, that links to another of the questions that we have received through univision.com. We have received hundreds, thousand, all related to immigration and the students. Kay Tomar through Univision.com told us — I’m reading — “What if at least you grant temporary protective status, TPS, to undocumented students? If the answer is yes, when? And if no, why not?”...

    Obama: Well, first of all, temporary protective status historically has been used for special circumstances where you have immigrants to this country who are fleeing persecution in their countries, or there is some emergency situation in their native land that required them to come to the United States. So it would not be appropriate to use that just for a particular group that came here primarily, for example, because they were looking for economic opportunity.

    With respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations through executive order, that’s just not the case, because there are laws on the books that Congress has passed — and I know that everybody here at Bell is studying hard so you know that we’ve got three branches of government. Congress passes the law. The executive branch’s job is to enforce and implement those laws. And then the judiciary has to interpret the laws.

    There are enough laws on the books by Congress that are very clear in terms of how we have to enforce our immigration system that for me to simply through executive order ignore those congressional mandates would not conform with my appropriate role as President....
    From Factcheck.Org

    ...President Barack Obama tried to rewrite history by claiming that his position had not changed regarding legal authority for executive orders on immigration that he is now considering....

    Maria Elena Salinas of Univision: Now I know that you have reduced, this is another concern on Twitter, the number of deportations of non-criminals. However, in 2012 more than 184,000 non-criminals were deported. In the spirit of your push for immigration reform, would you consider a moratorium on deportations of non-criminals? Remember, these are your words: “This is not about policy. It’s about people.”

    Obama: Well, I think it is important to remind everybody that, as I said I think previously, and I’m not a king. I am the head of the executive branch of government. I’m required to follow the law...

    Obama: Halting Deportations "Not an Option" would be "Ignoring the Law"

    ...PRESIDENT OBAMA: Here's the problem that I have, Jose, and I've said this consistently, my job in the executive branch is supposed to be to carry out the laws that are passed. Congress has said 'here is the law' when it comes to those who are undocumented, and they've allocated a whole bunch of money for enforcement. And, what I have been able to do is make a legal argument that I think is absolutely right, which is that given the resources that we have, we can't do everything that Congress has asked us to do.

    What we can do is then carve out the DREAM Act, saying young people who have basically grown up here are Americans that we should welcome. We're not going to have them operate under a cloud, under a shadow. But if we start broadening that, then essentially I would be ignoring the law in a way that I think would be very difficult to defend legally. So that's not an option..
    Last edited by cpwill; 11-21-14 at 11:00 PM.

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Interesting.

    So, perhaps you should first explain your criteria for deciding a "good reason" to violate the constitution and a "bad reason" to violate the constitution.

    That way, you can't make up the reason after the fact in a manner that conveniently makes Obama Bad and Republicans Good.
    Obama has violated the Constitution.

    Reagan and Bush didn't.


    Reagan and Bush Offer No Precedent for Obama's Amnesty Order - Atlantic Mobile
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Obama has violated the Constitution.

    Reagan and Bush didn't.


    Reagan and Bush Offer No Precedent for Obama's Amnesty Order - Atlantic Mobile
    You didn't give me your criteria.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    You didn't give me your criteria.
    I provided you with information that corrects the NCL lie that Reagan and Bush acted unilaterally in regard to inmigration. Would you like to dispute it? Or, are you going to spin off in another direction and tell us how Bill Clinton didn't lie under oath?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama acts on immigration, announcing decision to defer deportations of 4 million

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    No one has gotten amnesty. We are simply choosing to not deport them today. That may seem like splitting hairs to you but it isn't. The next POTUS can start deporting people the day after he's sworn in.
    According to who? Obama? I'm thinking this may be another scenario where relies on the stupidity of his base.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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