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Thread: Federal judge overturns Montana's ban on same-sex marriage

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    Re: Federal judge overturns Montana's ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    1.)No, it's the one-way street. I'm all for same sex marriage and allowing everyone their equal rights; but that means recognizing the equal rights of everyone. You do not have the right to another person's property or labor, so you cannot justly and morally force someone to sell you a cake if they do not want to sell you their cake. It's not yours, you have no right for it, none of your rights are violated if you do not obtain the cake.

    Appeal to authority makes bad arguments, so for this thread it's probably best to leave those arguments behind and just focus on the overturning of another same sex marriage ban.
    i agree it is a two way street and the reality and fact is rights, laws and rules were only violated in one direction.
    I know you have the opinion based on your philosophy that disagrees but im not interested in it nor does it matter, nor can it be backed up by anything but your philosophy and opinions.

    your claims are not claims anybody has made (right to cake and appeals to authority LMAO)

    feel free to beat your unsupportable drum though ill be doing whats best and sticking with facts, laws rights and court cases.
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    Re: Federal judge overturns Montana's ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    i agree it is a two way street and the reality and fact is rights, laws and rules were only violated in one direction.
    I know you have the opinion based on your philosophy that disagrees but im not interested in it nor does it matter, nor can it be backed up by anything but your philosophy and opinions.

    your claims are not claims anybody has made (right to cake and appeals to authority LMAO)

    feel free to beat your unsupportable drum though ill be doing whats best and sticking with facts, laws rights and court cases.
    "hose business owners would have chosen not to break the laws and rules that apply to us all and be criminals then there would be no issue." is appeal to authority. It's saying that the force used against them was legitimate because government says that it's legitimate. Duh

    When you use the guns of government to get a product, such as a cake, from someone else you are indeed laying claim, at least in part, to their property and labor. These are just facts.

    As I said, stay on topic here. Just celebrate the reversal of another same sex marriage ban; you don't want to bog down into this other line of propaganda and illegitimate use of government force.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Federal judge overturns Montana's ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    no rhetoric nor did i demonize them its all accurate.
    did they choose to break the laws and rules that apply to us all? yes
    does that make them criminals? yes
    is it smart a smart choice/decision to break the law and violate the rights of others? no

    these are simply realities and facts, theres no demonization at all unless you are creating it in your own head.

    If you disagree simply point it out and support your claim of demonization.
    Did they break laws? I don't know, I see it as a businesses right to refuse service, whether it dumb for them to do so or not.

    Were they arrested? Or is this a civil matter?

    I don't think they are "criminals", not good business people, or fervant believers in their religion, but neither of those is criminal, anymore than the zealots of radical homosexual totalitarianism are "criminal"... Misguided in their fervor maybe, but that isn't a crime brother.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Federal judge overturns Montana's ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    1.)"hose business owners would have chosen not to break the laws and rules that apply to us all and be criminals then there would be no issue." is appeal to authority.
    2.) It's saying that the force used against them was legitimate because government says that it's legitimate. Duh
    3.)When you use the guns of government to get a product, such as a cake, from someone else you are indeed laying claim, at least in part, to their property and labor. These are just facts.
    4.)As I said, stay on topic here. Just celebrate the reversal of another same sex marriage ban;
    5.) you don't want to bog down into this other line of propaganda and illegitimate use of government force.
    1.) no its what factually happened
    2.) this is made up unless of course you can quote me saying that. making straw man up wont help your unsupportable claims it only further exposes them
    3.) good thing thats not what happened
    4.) im celebrating equal rights which is still the topic of that also
    5.) more unsupportable opinion and philosophies that don't matter to rights, laws and facts.
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    Re: Federal judge overturns Montana's ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You do not have the right to another person's property or labor, so you cannot justly and morally force someone to sell you a cake if they do not want to sell you their cake. It's not yours, you have no right for it, none of your rights are violated if you do not obtain the cake.

    Appeal to authority makes bad arguments, so for this thread it's probably best to leave those arguments behind and just focus on the overturning of another same sex marriage ban.
    While you are consistent in your argument, most on the right support the fact that a business cannot turn away someone because they are black. So it is consistent that they cannot turn away someone that is gay as well. Now, you view that as wrong as forcing a business not to turn away a person because they are black, I happen to disagree.

    Bottom line is that as long as there are laws that say you cannot turn away someone because they are black, don't be surprised that there are laws that say you cannot turn away someone that is gay. I suggest you get with those on the right and try to sway them to your argument then if that is a sore spot with you.

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    Re: Federal judge overturns Montana's ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    1.)Did they break laws? I don't know
    2.) I see it as a businesses right to refuse service, whether it dumb for them to do so or not.
    3.) Were they arrested? Or is this a civil matter?
    4.)I don't think they are "criminals", not good business people, or fervant believers in their religion, but neither of those is criminal, anymore than the zealots of radical homosexual totalitarianism are "criminal"... Misguided in their fervor maybe, but that isn't a crime brother.
    1.) yes they did. they broke the law and rules that apply to use all
    2.) then thats your mistake, they have not right to illegally discriminate
    3.) never said they were arrested
    4.) again another mistake you are making. what you think doesnt matter. By definition they are factually criminals.

    im glad i could help clear up the two mistakes that were confusing you

    Criminal - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
    criminal
    : involving illegal activity : relating to crime

    Crime - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
    crime
    : an illegal act for which someone can be punished by the government
    crime


    so again im asking where i demonized them?
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    Re: Federal judge overturns Montana's ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) yes they did. they broke the law and rules that apply to use all
    2.) then thats your mistake, they have not right to illegally discriminate
    3.) never said they were arrested
    4.) again another mistake you are making. what you think doesnt matter. By definition they are factually criminals.

    im glad i could help clear up the two mistakes that were confusing you

    Criminal - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
    criminal
    : involving illegal activity : relating to crime

    Crime - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
    crime
    : an illegal act for which someone can be punished by the government
    crime


    so again im asking where i demonized them?
    1. Ok, but I'd like you to show where discrimination laws were broken.
    2. See 1
    3. If they broke a law, then why not?
    4. Oh, my opinion doesn't matter but yours does...this is why having a rational discussion with you is impossible.

    Have a nice day.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Federal judge overturns Montana's ban on same-sex marriage

    Keep on knocking em down! Seems like the bigots now are slowly beginning to shut their mouths! Looks like they realize they are gonna be on the wrong side of history.


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    Re: Federal judge overturns Montana's ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Keep on knocking em down! Seems like the bigots now are slowly beginning to shut their mouths! Looks like they realize they are gonna be on the wrong side of history.
    What an odd post...
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  10. #30
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Federal judge overturns Montana's ban on same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    1. Ok, but I'd like you to show where discrimination laws were broken.
    2. See 1
    3. If they broke a law, then why not?
    4. Oh, my opinion doesn't matter
    5.) but yours does...
    6.) this is why having a rational discussion with you is impossible.
    7.)Have a nice day.
    1.) the court cases and law suits and legal action show that lol, look it up
    how can you claimed you know action was taken against them but then claim you dont know why? thats just dishonesty
    2.) yes see 1
    3.) because you are not always arrested for breaking the law? are you from america? a speeding ticket is breaking the lase typically people arent arrested
    4.) no it doesnt.
    5.) no it doesnt either, nor did i say it did nor have i present any of my opinions to you
    6.) I agree when you make the mistakes and false assumption that you do you will always run into that trouble. you will hav ethis issue every time oyu talk to a perosn who is honest and focuses on facts.

    now lets reflect on the facts

    they broke the law
    they are criminals
    they have no right to illegally discriminate

    when you have anythign that proves otherwise let me know thanks

    7.) i always do especially when facts are on my side like now, you do the same
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