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Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

By using eminent domain the oil company is requesting that the state interfere on its behalf for force property owners to sell to them.
Like I said, that is a legitimate beef, but no one is really making that argument. It might be because the country is already a web of pipelines and roadways and rail lines and wires.
 
And therefore, in essence, Canada is using eminent domain to take away land from our farmers, ranchers and other landowners.
Wonder why they don't go through their own Rockies or build out to New Brunswick.
There's no way Canadian people would allow that .

By using eminent domain the oil company is requesting that the state interfere on its behalf for force property owners to sell to them.
 
Lol. Actually I am pretty good at labeling liberals for what they are.

No. No you are not. You are terrible at it. You are just doing blanket BS to demonize your opposition and it's not only beyond disingenuous it's very very ignorant.

Fletch said:
If you think liberals give a crap about property rights, you haven't been paying attention. Liberalism cannot exist if the state secures to each that which is rightfully his own. You cant rob Peter to pay Paul without first discarding the idea that Peter has any right to his property.

Moar garbage. Stick with what you believe and stop trying to tell others what they believe.
 
Lol. Actually I am pretty good at labeling liberals for what they are.
And I'm pretty good at labeling nonsensical Conservatives for what they are.
If you think liberals give a crap about property rights, you haven't been paying attention.
Liberals don't want to destroy the environment like far-right conservatives do.
I'd call that caring about property rights and giving a crap and you're obviously not paying attention, intentionally or not.
Liberalism cannot exist if the state secures to each that which is rightfully his own.
More TEA-party moronic nonsense.
You cant rob Peter to pay Paul without first discarding the idea that Peter has any right to his property.
But you were quite okay with this last decade when Bush did it .
 
Like I said, that is a legitimate beef, but no one is really making that argument. It might be because the country is already a web of pipelines and roadways and rail lines and wires.
It might be due to the fact that a company using eminent domain is hardly something media and entertainment industry does stories on.So its not even in most people's radar and if you asked most what eminent domain is they would probably think it was video game.
 
And therefore, in essence, Canada is using eminent domain to take away land from our farmers, ranchers and other landowners.
Wonder why they don't go through their own Rockies or build out to New Brunswick.
There's no way Canadian people would allow that .

This goes to show how unpatriotic many republicans are since they are okay with a foreign owned company taking land away from Americans.
 
Greetings, Helix. :2wave:

It's apparently been forgotten somewhere along the line that "compromise" is a good word, and it should be revived! This "my way or the highway" thinking has not worked to keep people happy - rather the opposite! With compromise everyone wins something, and it can truthfully be shouted from the rooftops - by both sides! What's wrong with that? Business and unions do it all the time, and it works. WTH is wrong with our current elected leaders in DC today? :2mad:

hello, Polgara, and i hope that you are doing well.

my fear is that a significant percentage of the problem is us. hyperpartisan politicians are generally guided by their local electorates. however, there's a chance that we can fix it, or that the the political climate will correct itself through necessity.
 
The real comedy is that the GOPs don't recognize that the judge's decision that is still out in Nebraska is over eminent domain.
Brought to the court by local landowners in Nebraska.
This KXL exercise is just an end-run around a court decision that has yet to be made.
And disingenuous or knowledge-challenged GOPs continue to spout that eminent domain is not what is being argued .

This goes to show how unpatriotic many republicans are since they are okay with a foreign owned company taking land away from Americans.
 
I would have agreed a few years ago, but the risk to the main source of water for America's farmland and millions of people is not worth it. Especially when Canada has proven that it can move the oil by rail and truck successfully on its own. The same reason I'm against the Pebble Mine in Alaska is the same reason I'm against the pipeline. Farm land and fisheries will provide productive jobs and resources long after the oil and gold are gone. Plus, this pipeline will result in maybe 30 permanent jobs. That is not worth risking the billions of dollars of agriculture and related jobs from contamination of the aquifer.

if they don't build it here, they'll just build it somewhere else.

oil is a finite resource, and will eventually be obsolete. my position is that we should utilize the existing political dynamic to hasten that obsolescence. trading the inevitable outcome for gains in renewable and nuclear technologies seems to be the best path forward.
 
if they don't build it here, they'll just build it somewhere else.

oil is a finite resource, and will eventually be obsolete. my position is that we should utilize the existing political dynamic to hasten that obsolescence. trading the inevitable outcome for gains in renewable and nuclear technologies seems to be the best path forward.

I'm a long game guy. I'd rather hold onto what we got, and let everyone sell theirs. We'll see how hot Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, UAE, etc are when they've blown through their oil money, they have no other economy, and we're sitting on the biggest oil reserves in the world.
 
I'm a long game guy. I'd rather hold onto what we got, and let everyone sell theirs. We'll see how hot Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, UAE, etc are when they've blown through their oil money, they have no other economy, and we're sitting on the biggest oil reserves in the world.

and if we don't prepare for the inevitable, then what?

when i was in grad school, i learned that the best thing to do was to study well in advance of the test, before there was an immediate need. we should be doing the same.
 
and if we don't prepare for the inevitable, then what?

when i was in grad school, i learned that the best thing to do was to study well in advance of the test, before there was an immediate need. we should be doing the same.

Oh, no I agree. We should be diversifying our energy sources immediately. But oil can be valuable, even if we weren't using it primarily for energy.
 
And therefore, in essence, Canada is using eminent domain to take away land from our farmers, ranchers and other landowners.
Wonder why they don't go through their own Rockies or build out to New Brunswick.
There's no way Canadian people would allow that .
THE KEYSTONE PIPELINE ALREADY EXISTS! They just don't exist as fully proposed. There is already a pipeline coming out of Alberta to Oklahoma. Just this year they finished another section that hooks Oklahoma up with Texas and went into operation this January. The only part that needs completed is the line from Alberta through Montana and North Dakota where there is already a big oil boom. It will allow oil from these states to get their product to the refineries in Texas.

Keystone XL Pipeline | StateImpact Texas
 
THE KEYSTONE PIPELINE ALREADY EXISTS! They just don't exist as fully proposed. There is already a pipeline coming out of Alberta to Oklahoma. Just this year they finished another section that hooks Oklahoma up with Texas and went into operation this January. The only part that needs completed is the line from Alberta through Montana and North Dakota where there is already a big oil boom. It will allow oil from these states to get their product to the refineries in Texas.

Keystone XL Pipeline | StateImpact Texas

It isn't so much the refineries in Texas, but the Gulf of Mexico that facilitates shipping the refined oil to the rest of the planet.
 
Apparently only those ones are bad.

Well, the only tax breaks you bitch about is the one that the oil companies get. Wind companies don't even pay taxes. But, that's ok with you, huh?
 
It isn't so much the refineries in Texas, but the Gulf of Mexico that facilitates shipping the refined oil to the rest of the planet.
That too but Oklahoma is rich with refineries as is Texas.
 
Oh, no I agree. We should be diversifying our energy sources immediately. But oil can be valuable, even if we weren't using it primarily for energy.

agreed, as long as we accept that it is a finite resource, and that failing to prepare for its scarcity would be a major mistake for our nation.
 
Let the Canadians go through their pristine Rockies or build a port off the pristine coast in New Brunswick.
This is why they haven't gone there so far--because of their own environmentalists and eminent domain.

They even tried to go through pristine Northwestern Maine to Portland, Maine with the help of the reelected idiot Gov. LePage but that was thwarted also .

if they don't build it here, they'll just build it somewhere else.

oil is a finite resource, and will eventually be obsolete. my position is that we should utilize the existing political dynamic to hasten that obsolescence. trading the inevitable outcome for gains in renewable and nuclear technologies seems to be the best path forward.
 
I responded to that already. And I think that would make for an interesting argument that probably has some validity. But that isn't the argument being used to stop the pipeline. The left really couldn't use that argument anyway without looking like total hypocrites. They are advocates of state power, not property rights.



What? Who are advocates for state power? You must be kidding! The states have too much power as it is. Property rights are primary!
 
The real comedy is that the GOPs don't recognize that the judge's decision that is still out in Nebraska is over eminent domain.
Brought to the court by local landowners in Nebraska.
This KXL exercise is just an end-run around a court decision that has yet to be made.
And disingenuous or knowledge-challenged GOPs continue to spout that eminent domain is not what is being argued .



....and don't forget the treaty rights of the Sioux Nation. They will not allow this pipeline on their lands.
 
....and don't forget the treaty rights of the Sioux Nation. They will not allow this pipeline on their lands.

We'll just bring back the horse cavalry if they don't like it. :lol:

Juanita, you have a source ? Usually a tribe makes money any time an utility easement crosses their sovereign reservation.

Is the pipe line going to be a utility ?

Sure it just isn't the small minority of trouble makers known as the AIM ?
 
We'll just bring back the horse cavalry if they don't like it. :lol:

Juanita, you have a source ? Usually a tribe makes money any time an utility easement crosses their sovereign reservation.

Is the pipe line going to be a utility ?

Sure it just isn't the small minority of trouble makers known as the AIM ?



No, tribal leaders have been all over the news all day! I didn't realize that AIM still existed, must be a new generation. They seem pretty serious in their opposition to the pipeline tho.
 
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