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Thread: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Well, it doesn't really matter where it goes, since oil is a world wide commodity. The more we produce, the better it is for lowering the world wide price. So it does benefit us by putting downward pressure on oil prices. In fact, since futures trading affects the price, just the news of us approving the pipeline would put downward pressure on the price of oil.

    My my aren't we naive.

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    And trains derail, and trucks crash and airplanes crash and refineries explode and ships sink...whats your point? Nothing is fool proof. And if we didn't do things because it might fail or break we would do nothing. But my point was, even if there was a certainty that no oil would ever leak from the pipeline, you would still oppose the project. You would simply move on to anther objection. And another. And another. Why? Because these aren't your real objections. Your real objection is ideological.
    No it isn't.

    I have a friend that is in the oil clean up business. He told me anyone that tells you oil doesn't do damage to our environment is either making lots of money off of oil or is naive.

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    And of course it will, which is why Louisiana is for it. It means work for US refineries as well as the construction and supervision of the pipeline supply jobs. The Unions are for it as are the majority of the American people.
    The real question is, is it worth the tradeoff.

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    No. None of the above.

    The American market is of declining interest as the US and Canada have a treaty where Canada guarantees a certain annual amount of petroleum and gas at less than market prices, and with environmental taxes removed - the US refuses to pay a foreign government environmental taxes.

    This oil is not intended for the American Market. It is intended for the Chinese market through the gulf of Mexico and the Panama Canal.

    There is no fracking involved and it isn't a big issue here beyond the sensible shoe/granola crowd. This oil comes from the Athabaska tar fields, thousands of acres of tar infused sand - a no man's land - where they dig it up, use steam to remove the sand and the result is the single most viscous and long lasting lubricants in the world, something the Chinese need a lot.

    The report on this vote this morning is that the Republicans , aware that without quick passage this thing dies forever, they will bring it back in January with stuff Obama needs in order to get it passed. If they can do that, it is said the deal will be saved, without it the word is it's dead and Ottawa will green like the Northern Gateway Aurora pipeline.

    I wonder though if they can offer enough stuff to save it. If I wanted the deal I would be telling my local rep what you are hearing from Canada as once again your media has got pretty much everything wrong
    I never stated Canada's crude was intended for the US market. I stated the cost of oil has dropped significantly because of the increase supply that is being provided by the US/Canada. And it is also true that Canada have been using fracking extensively since the 1960's in many parts of the country for gas and oil.
    Over the last six years oil exports have increased in this country tremendously and done so on private lands using fracking.
    We all know why Reid allowed the vote at this time. It was to help Ms. Mary in Louisiana. Over the last six years until yesterday he has shelved the bill because of fear it would get passed and Obama would have been forced to either sign it or veto. Before it even reached the floor for a vote, the fix was in that it wouldn't pass. After all we have a president who is lock and step with the IPCC and Global Warming. Have you read the latest report coming out of the IPCC, it calls for eliminating fossil fuel usage to 0 globally or we are going to fry.

    I certainly support the extension of Keystone that would go through Montana and N Dakota where they have their own oil boom occurring. The pipeline would not just aid Canada but would assist them in getting their crude to market. But hey Canada doesn't want to wait around until a regime change, I certainly understand that one. With the technology to turn natural gas to a liquid, it would also be great to see more of that occurring and permitted to be moved as an export instead of letting it burn off and wasted. I see Japan and the EU as big customers ending their dependency on Russia. Maybe that will become a reality in the near future with a regime change also.
    Last edited by vesper; 11-19-14 at 03:23 PM.

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    The real question is, is it worth the tradeoff.
    Trade-off for what?

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    I never stated Canada's crude was intended for the US market. I stated the cost of oil has dropped significantly because of the increase supply that is being provided by the US/Canada.
    Over the last six years oil exports have increased in this country tremendously and done so on private lands.
    We all know why Reid allowed the vote at this time. It was to help Ms. Mary in Louisiana. Over the last six years until yesterday he has shelved the bill because of fear it would get passed and Obama would have been forced to either sign it or veto. Before it even reached the floor for a vote, the fix was in that it wouldn't pass. After all we have a president who is lock and step with the IPCC and Global Warming. Have you read the latest report coming out of the IPCC, it calls for eliminating fossil fuel usage to 0 globally or we are going to fry.

    I certainly support the extension of Keystone that would go through Montana and N Dakota where they have their own oil boom occurring. The pipeline would not just aid Canada but would assist them in getting their crude to market. But hey Canada doesn't want to wait around until a regime change, I certainly understand that one. With the technology to turn natural gas to a liquid, it would also be great to see more of that occurring and permitted to be moved as an export instead of letting it burn off and wasted. I see Japan and the EU as big customers ending their dependency on Russia. Maybe that will become a reality in the near future with a regime change also.
    I did not mean to imply you were uniformed, in fact you're one of few who is. I am getting real sick of informing people that the southern end is completed, people in Texas have been living next to it for almost a year and didn't even know...which should tell you about the real impact.

    Price doesn't really matter in the oil industry as they operate on one, three and five year averages, which never go down.

    And you are absolutely right about the ministrations of politicking in the senate....but we are hearing Reid was under pressure from his own Democrats, angry and steamed over the mid term losses.

    And LNG - liquified natural gas was a major election issue here in 2012 and we won. They have completed their first processing plant and LNG started flowing to China this summer, a second is under construction. We are told the royalties and taxes will pay for our health coverage for many years. There again US wrangling prevented any being built in California or the Gulf.

    I hear a lot of talk about Europe wanting off the Russian teat, but they are tanker averse and there is an huge push back. They had a spill in the North Sea a few years back and the eco-queers still have their stool in a knot.

    Ironically the situation has reversed. In the 70's and 80's Canada couldn't get anything done, now it's the US and we are "Drill, Baby, Drill"
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    No it isn't.

    I have a friend that is in the oil clean up business. He told me anyone that tells you oil doesn't do damage to our environment is either making lots of money off of oil or is naive.
    The sooner you come up with a substitute for oil the better then. For now, the US runs on oil. It is the life blood of every industrial society and the thing that makes your first world life possible. The nave one here is you.

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    My my aren't we naive.
    No, WE aren't.
    "We have met the enemy and they are ours..." -- Oliver Hazard Perry
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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Trade-off for what?
    Trade off for what??? It is nearly certain that there will be a leak, and the area won't be inhabitable for 100's of miles in all directions for decades. This is oil we are talking about!
    "We have met the enemy and they are ours..." -- Oliver Hazard Perry
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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Trade off for what??? It is nearly certain that there will be a leak, and the area won't be inhabitable for 100's of miles in all directions for decades. This is oil we are talking about!
    Nearly certain? That can also mean nearly uncertain.

    You seem to be unaware of the safety standards on modern pipelines and your claim of "100's of miles in all directions for decades" is hysterical hyperbole.

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