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Thread: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

  1. #201
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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Wind farm funding isn't hurting for cash. The wind industry only exists because of green welfare. How about we support an industry that can actually stand on it's own feet? What's wrong with that?
    Part of the problem with that line of thinking is that it completely ignores the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, .... order technology that spawns from undertaking initiatives that are simply not profitable in this current time.

    The technology that emerged from the space race was monumental to our current way of life. Everything from communications to manufacturing systems have greatly benefited from taking on a challenge that wouldn't be undertaken due to the enormous cash flow requirements spanned out across decades. Market structures at the present are heavily dependent upon short term profitability, and without public sector input a great deal of current research would go unfunded.

    Is it your belief that only profitable endeavors are worthy? Curing cancer vs. treating it is less profitable to big pharma than it is to retail.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Part of the problem with that line of thinking is that it completely ignores the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, .... order technology that spawns from undertaking initiatives that are simply not profitable in this current time.

    The technology that emerged from the space race was monumental to our current way of life. Everything from communications to manufacturing systems have greatly benefited from taking on a challenge that wouldn't be undertaken due to the enormous cash flow requirements spanned out across decades. Market structures at the present are heavily dependent upon short term profitability, and without public sector input a great deal of current research would go unfunded.

    Is it your belief that only profitable endeavors are worthy? Curing cancer vs. treating it is less profitable to big pharma than it is to retail.
    The wind indistry has been propped up for several technilogical generations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The wind indistry has been propped up for several technilogical generations.
    Even if i concede your point, so what? It still ignores the underlying premise of my reply.

    Subsidies for fossil fuels (profitable) are lager than alternatives (less profitable). <--- A second point, to which you may chose to address, but do not need to because it renders your entire POV moot.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    I am actually surprised that so few democrats stepped up to help a fellow senator in a tight race like this. Keystone will certainly pass once republicans take over, so why couldn't Landrieu get one more person in the senate to step up and help her on this? Either she isn't very popular among her fellow democrats, or they are such hardened ideologues that they were willing to throw her over the side.

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Part of the problem with that line of thinking is that it completely ignores the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, .... order technology that spawns from undertaking initiatives that are simply not profitable in this current time.

    The technology that emerged from the space race was monumental to our current way of life. Everything from communications to manufacturing systems have greatly benefited from taking on a challenge that wouldn't be undertaken due to the enormous cash flow requirements spanned out across decades. Market structures at the present are heavily dependent upon short term profitability, and without public sector input a great deal of current research would go unfunded.

    Is it your belief that only profitable endeavors are worthy? Curing cancer vs. treating it is less profitable to big pharma than it is to retail.
    I'm shocked also that Apdst is against a cure for cancer.

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    I am actually surprised that so few democrats stepped up to help a fellow senator in a tight race like this. Keystone will certainly pass once republicans take over, so why couldn't Landrieu get one more person in the senate to step up and help her on this? Either she isn't very popular among her fellow democrats, or they are such hardened ideologues that they were willing to throw her over the side.
    I think it's because they know she's a lame duck. There's no way she wins in the run off, not even a prayer, and armed with this knowledge they chose to vote the same way they did last year, oh wait, they never voted last year..

    Tim-
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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    challenging websites--we haven't seen that on DP for a while .
    The Libbos do it on a daily basis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Even if i concede your point, so what? It still ignores the underlying premise of my reply.

    Subsidies for fossil fuels (profitable) are lager than alternatives (less profitable). <--- A second point, to which you may chose to address, but do not need to because it renders your entire POV moot.
    1) Oil companies don't get cash subsidies.

    2) I wouldn't call wind subsidies un-profitable.

    Taxpayers Get Hosed on Duke Energy's Wind Farm Buying Spree | National Legal and Policy Center
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    And it too will be shipped overseas!
    Are you sure? All of it? After it's refined?

    Anyway, so what?
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Here the Pipeline is still very popular. I wonder, could some of the lack of support in your country be due to the plummeting price of oil? I heard big companies are going to start cutting back on fracking due to the price drop. I know Canada is the king of fracking and has become an important import. Here we are on the verge of turning the United States from an energy importer to energy exporter because of fracking. And we did it on private lands. Those who have been in charge in Washington have put every roadblock they could muster to stop fracking on government lands. The increase of oil produced in America making its way into the market is one reason cost for oil has dropped. But if it drops too low companies will have no choice but to stop production. It costs us a lot more to produce that oil and natural gas than what the Saudis do. Some think the Saudis are purposely lowering the price per barrel to kill our new energy boom in its early stages. Nothing would make a greenie weenie happier than to see that happen. But at the same time if oil drops to $45 dollars a barrel all these big investments in alternatives will have folded because they will no longer be able to compete with cheap gas and oil. Does the name Ivanpah ring a bell? It's a company owned by a couple of greenie cronies Google and NRG. Two billion dollars poured into this company much on the taxpayers' dime and it struggles to produce 25% of the energy it claimed it could. And then wanted extentions on its loans and grants to help pay off their debt.
    World's largest solar plant applying for federal grant to pay off federal loan | Fox News
    People aren't going to continue to put up with that crap. Especially if they can get oil at such prices and natural gas on the cheap.
    No. None of the above.

    The American market is of declining interest as the US and Canada have a treaty where Canada guarantees a certain annual amount of petroleum and gas at less than market prices, and with environmental taxes removed - the US refuses to pay a foreign government environmental taxes.

    This oil is not intended for the American Market. It is intended for the Chinese market through the gulf of Mexico and the Panama Canal.

    There is no fracking involved and it isn't a big issue here beyond the sensible shoe/granola crowd. This oil comes from the Athabaska tar fields, thousands of acres of tar infused sand - a no man's land - where they dig it up, use steam to remove the sand and the result is the single most viscous and long lasting lubricants in the world, something the Chinese need a lot.

    The report on this vote this morning is that the Republicans , aware that without quick passage this thing dies forever, they will bring it back in January with stuff Obama needs in order to get it passed. If they can do that, it is said the deal will be saved, without it the word is it's dead and Ottawa will green like the Northern Gateway Aurora pipeline.

    I wonder though if they can offer enough stuff to save it. If I wanted the deal I would be telling my local rep what you are hearing from Canada as once again your media has got pretty much everything wrong
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

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