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Thread: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

  1. #131
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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the state legislatures, and since the states control the senate, it is no longer a collective body as the house.

    collective bodies are full of faction/ special interest.

    that is not to say there not going to be corruption in government be it federal or state, however since i know corruption exist i want it as close to the people as possible, because it is easier to expose and correct the problem, then 3000 miles away.
    Well seeing how almost every single GOP state legislator are member of and are entirely beholdened to ALEC, seems like repealing the 17th is pretty much just selling the Upper house to the Koch brothers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I oppose the pipeline because I actually respect the property rights of the land owners.
    That I can understand.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by nimby View Post
    we have the 17th because state legislatures were terminally gerry-mandered in the late 1800s and both parties in the progress--ive era saw that this was wrong.
    Without the 17th right now, gops would have over 70 senators due to their gerry-mandered state remaps.
    Obviously, the gm'd house isn't enough for the gop as they further attempt to polarize dc .
    so lets see the difference...... 17th and we have people in the senate of wealth and power, doing the bidding of special interest, and violating laws the rest of americans have to obey.........making themselves richer, and acting and grooming their children as if they are better then the people

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Support for the pipeline is based upon the idea that human life and human activity relies upon the availability of affordable energy. In short: it exists, we need it, and have the ability to refine it into a useable substance. And the there is no argument that doing so is against the national interest. If anti-progress liberals like you and Obama were around and in charge when the first oil well was drilled, you would have sought to have it capped.
    Please try to use your posts to speak for yourself because you are doing a terrible job of speaking for me.

    You didn't answer my question. Why do you support the keystone pipeline? Why THIS pipeline? What is it about THIS pipeline that you are so adamant in supporting?

    Thank you for your answer in advance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Well seeing how almost every single GOP state legislator are member of and are entirely beholdened to ALEC, seems like repealing the 17th is pretty much just selling the Upper house to the Koch brothers.
    so what you saying is because you dont have people in positions of power you don't wish to do it.....would you do it if the states were controlled by democrats.....i would because it what makes a republic, not an evil democracy.

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    As long as two posters who mean well feel the other party started it, it's obvious nothing will get done on the National level.
    I don't feel like going back through history on this.

    I've wished McConnell well since he won yet have had the gloating continually smeared in my face.
    Not by you--but I'm sure you see it by the vast majority of righties on DP.

    I think DP represents the National pulse with its posters.
    Which definitely concerns me going forth .

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    not quite,the democrats have refused comprimise since reid became majority leader,the only logical question is who started the game of no,and why you feel its ok when your party is the party of no but demonize the other party for the same.


    i believe the term is hypocrisy

    hy·poc·ri·sy
    həˈpäkrəsē/
    noun
    the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    It's a defeat, for the time being. You can bet the house will pass it again next year and most likely the senate will pass it. But that is not guaranteed

    .00 Democrats who voted AYE on the Keystone

    Dem Aye Replaced by Republican Aye
    Begich AK
    Hagan NC
    Landrieu LA
    Pryor AR
    Walsh MT

    But will these Democrats vote AYE again next year
    Donnelly IN
    Heitkamp ND
    Manchin WV
    McCaskill Mo
    Tester MT
    Warner VA

    On the plus side Harkin of IA voted Nay, Ernst who is replacing him will vote AYE, the same for Udall of Colorado who is being replaced by Gardner, Johnson of SD nay will be replaced with an AYE from Rounds and Rockefellers Nay in West Virginia will be replace by an Aye from Capito.

    So the Keystone should have 57 votes in January. The GOP will need 3 of the 6 Democrats who voted AYE in order to reach 60. I do not see 4 of them changing their vote, although one or two might. Keystone will pass the senate. But there is no way to get to 67 if the president veto’s it. 63 as I see it is the max.
    i dont consider it a defeat as much as i consider it a failure to prevail filibuster,veto,or reids vote blocking.


    defeated as in didnt pass yes,defeated as in majority voted it down no.the current means are legit as they are what congress chose as the rules,but i cant conflate defeat with majority support.


    i doubt obama would veto it,he would probably pressure changes as a comprimise.without reid,obama either has to comprimise to get what he wants in echange for getting republicans what they want,or he will be labelled the obstructionist.
    “[The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!” – Abe “Grampa” Simpson”

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Please try to use your posts to speak for yourself because you are doing a terrible job of speaking for me.
    No I didn't.
    You didn't answer my question. Why do you support the keystone pipeline? Why THIS pipeline? What is it about THIS pipeline that you are so adamant in supporting?

    Thank you for your answer in advance.
    Commerce should be free in a free society and not interfered with by the state unless the state can demonstrate some overriding national interest to stop that commerce. The case hasn't been made. So its not like I support the pipeline. I just don't recognize any rational or legal reason for the state to prevent its construction. Oil, like every other product, needs to be transported from point A to point B. Pipelines are the safest, most efficient means of doing that. I don't need a rational reason to support the construction of this pipeline any more than I would need a rational reason to support someone erecting a shed.

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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    so what you saying is because you dont have people in positions of power you don't wish to do it.....would you do it if the states were controlled by democrats.....i would because it what makes a republic, not an evil democracy.
    No. I'm not willing to change the 17th regardless of state control. Just because a democracy can be evil doesn't mean that a democracy IS evil. You speak too much in absolutes. Besides, we don't live in a democracy. We don't vote on legislation. We elect people to do that for us. There is a vast difference between a democracy and a representative democracy. The closest thing we have at the national level to being a democracy is the house of representatives. How come you don't want to destroy that evil democracy?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

  10. #140
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    Re: Senate Narrowly Defeats Keystone XL Pipeline

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    The judge hasn't even ruled in Nebraska yet.
    Something that GOPs normally fight for.
    Not to mention how GOPs are normally against the excesses of eminent domain .
    I think they are against eminent domain when it for something they are against. If Obama wanted a pipeline directly from his favorite bottled spring water company on one side of the country to his residence most of the GOP would scream bloody murder of how day the president use eminent domain.It wouldn't matter how much extra tax dollars the bottled spring water company contributed to the local economies as a result of supplying spring water to the president.Nor would it matter how many people were employed to build and maintain the pipeline and pump needed to pump the water from one side of the country to the other just so the president can have spring water come out of his tap.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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