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Thread: Gay marriage issue now linked to Ohio senator

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    Re: Gay marriage issue now linked to Ohio senator

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    While I would not want to insult any one by calling them a libertarian <snip>
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    Re: Gay marriage issue now linked to Ohio senator

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Oh hey look! A Strawman! Does it need a brain?
    Not a strawman, you claimed the Senator doesn't value marriage because he is for SSM.

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    Re: Gay marriage issue now linked to Ohio senator

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I have only what he said at the time, where he clearly drew the line straight from "my son is gay" to "therefore I have decided to support gay marriage".



    it might be so - but that is what he suggested at the time, and I see no particular reason (given that that is common) to assume otherwise.
    That is not what he said from what I can see. Here is the quote I found. Notice the part I bolded:

    It allowed me to think of this issue from a new perspective, and that's of a Dad who loves his son a lot and wants him to have the same opportunities that his brother and sister would have -- to have a relationship like Jane and I have had for over 26 years
    Rethinking issues from different perspectives is a good thing, not a bad thing.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Gay marriage issue now linked to Ohio senator

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    That is not what he said from what I can see. Here is the quote I found. Notice the part I bolded:
    Yup. He thought of it from a new perspective. And what was that perspective?

    It allowed me to think of this issue from a new perspective, and that's of a Dad who loves his son a lot and wants him to have the same opportunities that his brother and sister would have -- to have a relationship like Jane and I have had for over 26 years
    That of a dad who loves his son a lot.

    Rethinking issues from different perspectives is a good thing, not a bad thing.
    Sure. But if you change your position on something like this not because of your principles but because it was something you wanted to do in order to validate and enable your child (which is a natural desire for a parent), then that means that it is likely that either A) your original position wasn't built on principles or B) your principles are weaker than your emotions.

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    Re: Gay marriage issue now linked to Ohio senator

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Yes, because we all know only heterosexuals value marriage.

    That is why there is almost a 50% divorce rate.
    There's a 50% success rate also. (conveniently overlooked)
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

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    Re: Gay marriage issue now linked to Ohio senator

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Not a strawman, you claimed the Senator doesn't value marriage because he is for SSM.
    Not at all. There are plenty of people who value marriage and are for SSM because of that. I said the specifics surrounding his change of heart suggest that he doesn't value it much as a "right".

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    Re: Gay marriage issue now linked to Ohio senator

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Yup. He thought of it from a new perspective. And what was that perspective?



    That of a dad who loves his son a lot.



    Sure. But if you change your position on something like this not because of your principles but because it was something you wanted to do in order to validate and enable your son (which is a natural desire for a parent), then that means that it is likely that either A) your original position wasn't built on principles or B) your principles are weaker than your emotions.
    And once again you are adding things he never said. He did not say, nor is there evidence I can find, that his reason was to "validate and enable his son". What he said was that he had a new perspective on the issue.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Gay marriage issue now linked to Ohio senator

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I would have a very hard time really calling either McCain or Romney anything but socially conservative, and the reason they lost had exactly jack and **** to do with social issues.
    As a social conservative I have no problem identifying that neither of them ran on anything except the "moderate GOP" brand. George W ran on Social Conservatism/Fiscal Moderation, and he won two elections. McCain and Romney flipped that, and lost two elections.

    And the reason McCain lost was because of the meltdown and the relative outturn in base. The reason Romney lost was straight up the relative outturn in base.

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    Re: Gay marriage issue now linked to Ohio senator

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    And once again you are adding things he never said. He did not say, nor is there evidence I can find, that his reason was to "validate and enable his son". What he said was that he had a new perspective on the issue.
    Yes, and that his new perspective was that his son who he loves is now gay and he wants things for him. That's pretty much it right there.

    I think you are doing the fip-side of what you warned me of - seeking to find positive reasons for him to take a position you view positively.

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    Re: Gay marriage issue now linked to Ohio senator

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    As a social conservative I have no problem identifying that neither of them ran on anything except the "moderate GOP" brand. George W ran on Social Conservatism/Fiscal Moderation, and he won two elections. McCain and Romney flipped that, and lost two elections.
    I would have a hard time calling Bush the younger anything but fiscally conservative as he ran(how he governed was another issue), and this may point to an issue with both of us, looking from outlier positions and have less to do with Bush, McCain and Romney's actual positions.

    And the reason McCain lost was because of the meltdown and the relative outturn in base. The reason Romney lost was straight up the relative outturn in base.
    So you agree that their stance on social issues was not why they lost?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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