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Thread: Gay marriage issue now linked to Ohio senator

  1. #111
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    Re: Gay marriage issue now linked to Ohio senator

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) yes it is because i never mentioned you being taught about gay marriage lol not once and repeating that lie only makes you post fail further
    2.) never said it was hence why its a strawman and it fails
    3.) and yet dont understand equal rights
    4.) thats what i though you cant quote me saying the lie you made up
    5.) you posted a lie, multiples now
    6.) and you made claims on top of his words you cant back up and that have been proven wrong
    7.) can you quote me saying that? if you cant you post fails again
    8.) correct it further shows you dont understand the issue, SSM is an equal rights issue thank you for proving my point and the facts.

    again let me know when you have anything that supports your claim, even one accurate fact would be great . . thanks
    1) If you know we weren't taught about gay marriage while we were young, then you should not find it sad or surprising that it takes a personal connection to the issue to change our minds
    2) Good, then you know neither Rob Portman nor anyone his age was taught about SSM to have an opinion on it
    3) I understand equal rights. Your claim is a lie. I'm pro-SSM. I'm pro equal rights for everyone.
    4) Once again, you're finally admitting the SSM issue is a recent one which is why people are still evolving - including our President in 2012.
    5) I never mentioned blacks in my posts until you did. Either link to where I did, or admit your post is a lie.
    6) You can Google Rob Portman's words on this issue in 2013. Your post again is a lie. This is what he said, and unlike you, I believe him.
    7) So good, now you are also admitting that the SSM issue has only recently been discussed. There would be no reason for Rob Portman to have to face it or confront it until it involves someone he loves.
    8) I understand SSM is an equal rights issue. I never said anything otherwise. Your post is a lie.

    What "claim" are you asking me to support? The one that Rob Portman loves his son and because of that, he wants whatever makes his son happy, and if that means supporting his son's right to marry the man he loves, he now has to change his view on SSM? Google it. I'm not your research assistant.

    FYI, your posts are a disservice to the people who discuss the issue of SSM rationally. You don't even realize that I'm pro-SSM, but you post posts that are filled with lies, accusations, and angst. You need to rethink the way you post.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  2. #112
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    Re: Gay marriage issue now linked to Ohio senator

    Quote Originally Posted by Samantha Brown View Post
    Not all feelings are that fleeting. That's no kind of rebuttal at all. Perhaps we are using different definitions, but if I held an opinion on something, and then something happened that made me change my mind, or I learned something that changed my perceptive, my feelings about that thing would change. Permanently, not just till later.
    Feelings are indeed exceedingly poor basis for "principles", especially where particularly powerful emotions (such as love of a child) are concerned. That is a way to construct "principles" that really boil down to self-gratification, because you are depending on your feelings and desires to validate them. I'd have happily killed that man had I depended on my feelings. I'd be the guy on television saying "sure my son murdered a few people, but at heart he's a really great guy" if I depended on my feelings to guide my judgments.

    No, the threat is to my uncle's comfortable notions about normality, about his standing in his community, about how he'll explain to the priest, about how he has always seen the world. Of course he doesn't think gay people are going to murder him, but he once thought that their - to him - increased presence, was a threat to order and the social fabric.
    So his fear was social? alright.

    And if she told you she was gay and those things wouldn't be happening, presumably you'd be cool with it?
    Nope, I would be extremely upset, and not a little heartbroken.

    I think the time is important - homosexuality is far more accepted by my generation than by his.
    My daughter is a little over 1 year old. Not sure what generation "my generation" is to you, but if it's "millennial", then it's "our" generation .

    He learned that there is nothing wrong with being gay, that it's not dirty or shameful or something that other people's people are. His daughter is, and he had to learn to cope with that. Why do you find it so odd that a man would be ignorant of these things?
    You are confusing "changed his opinion" with "reduced ignorance".

  3. #113
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    Re: Gay marriage issue now linked to Ohio senator

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Feelings are indeed exceedingly poor basis for "principles", especially where particularly powerful emotions (such as love of a child) are concerned. That is a way to construct "principles" that really boil down to self-gratification, because you are depending on your feelings and desires to validate them. I'd have happily killed that man had I depended on my feelings. I'd be the guy on television saying "sure my son murdered a few people, but at heart he's a really great guy" if I depended on my feelings to guide my judgments.
    We're talking about different kinds of feelings. It's not his emotional love for his daughter that guides his judgments. His emotional love for his daughter forces him to face his fears about gayness and to try to come to terms with them. What happens next is rational, not emotional. He learns about how it is just a normal part of humanity that about 2% are gay, and normal people like his daughter are included. Then he learns that it's nothing to worry about, or be ashamed of etc. Then his principles are guided by a better understanding of it. You are just pouncing on the word 'feelings' and ignoring the fact that there are other stages involved. To feel differently for no reason is one thing - to feel differently because you understand things better is a very good reason to change your principles, because your old principles are based upon something that no longer applies, like an irrational fear for example.

    So his fear was social? alright.
    Partly. And partly personal, because it challenged his world view and his own deep-seated prejudices, as well as his feeling of safety in a world without gayness anywhere near. Your shrugging is very patronising, particularly when you haven't troubled to think about everything I've said.

    Nope, I would be extremely upset, and not a little heartbroken.
    Why?

    My daughter is a little over 1 year old. Not sure what generation "my generation" is to you, but if it's "millennial", then it's "our" generation .
    My uncle is 75 or thereabouts. That's who I was talking about. I'm 23. My cousin is 39.


    You are confusing "changed his opinion" with "reduced ignorance".
    Reduction of ignorance leads to changes of opinion rather a lot. I am not confusing the two just because you say so.

  4. #114
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    Re: Gay marriage issue now linked to Ohio senator

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    While I would not want to insult any one by calling them a libertarian, and Portman certainly isn't(nor do I think he is a liberal republican, takes much more than one issue to make some one liberal), it is not so much libertarians arguing to get the government out of marriage as it is conservatives who see the writing on the wall and if they have to share their toys they will just break them instead. Notice that no one wanted the state out of marriage until they started having to share marraige with those icky gay people.
    There is a third option that you have overlooked. That is that many who were formerly opposed have simple 'evolved' on the issue. Obama is such a person and I think many on the right fall into the same category. Americans are a fair and reasonable people for the most part and when arguing that gays shouldnt be allowed to marry find a convincing answer to the question: why not? to have become more and more elusive.

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    Re: Gay marriage issue now linked to Ohio senator

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post

    fyi, your posts are a disservice to the people who discuss the issue of ssm rationally. You don't even realize that i'm pro-ssm, but you post posts that are filled with lies, accusations, and angst. You need to rethink the way you post.
    qft !!

  6. #116
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    Re: Gay marriage issue now linked to Ohio senator

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    There is a third option that you have overlooked. That is that many who were formerly opposed have simple 'evolved' on the issue. Obama is such a person and I think many on the right fall into the same category. Americans are a fair and reasonable people for the most part and when arguing that gays shouldnt be allowed to marry find a convincing answer to the question: why not? to have become more and more elusive.
    Nowhere did I say they had not evolved on the issue. They clearly have.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  7. #117
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    Re: Gay marriage issue now linked to Ohio senator

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    1) If you know we weren't taught about gay marriage while we were young, then you should not find it sad or surprising that it takes a personal connection to the issue to change our minds
    2) Good, then you know neither Rob Portman nor anyone his age was taught about SSM to have an opinion on it
    3) I understand equal rights. Your claim is a lie. I'm pro-SSM. I'm pro equal rights for everyone.
    4) Once again, you're finally admitting the SSM issue is a recent one which is why people are still evolving - including our President in 2012.
    5) I never mentioned blacks in my posts until you did. Either link to where I did, or admit your post is a lie.
    6) You can Google Rob Portman's words on this issue in 2013. Your post again is a lie. This is what he said, and unlike you, I believe him.
    7) So good, now you are also admitting that the SSM issue has only recently been discussed. There would be no reason for Rob Portman to have to face it or confront it until it involves someone he loves.
    8) I understand SSM is an equal rights issue. I never said anything otherwise. Your post is a lie.
    9.)What "claim" are you asking me to support? The one that Rob Portman loves his son and because of that, he wants whatever makes his son happy, and if that means supporting his son's right to marry the man he loves, he now has to change his view on SSM? Google it. I'm not your research assistant.
    10.)FYI, your posts are a disservice to the people who discuss the issue of SSM rationally. You don't even realize that I'm pro-SSM, but you post posts that are filled with lies, accusations, and angst. You need to rethink the way you post.
    1.) again this strawman completely fails but keep trying to sell it
    and guess what its still sad that it takes a personal relationship to someone to respect equal rights
    2.) never said otherwise thats why your lie failed but he was definitely taught about equal rights
    3.) your posts prove otherwise
    4.) never claimed otherwise another failure on your part i notice you still havent quoted me saying the lie you claimed?? very telling
    5.) another failed strawman never claimed you did lol
    6.) and yet you cant support your claims on top of his words, your post fails again
    7.) translation you cant quote me saying the lie you made up
    8.) you claimed you dont understand why equal rights is mentioned, if you admit they are the same then you shouldnt be confused LMAO your post fails again
    9.) the ones you stated and i already quoted and you dodge. . .here ill do it again

    do you have ANYTHING that supports your claims of:
    "Gay marriage hasn't been a front and center issue for the last 40 years." so that doesnt make it matter to equal rights and make it "real"
    or
    "The issue of gay marriage became very real to him because of his son. That isn't sad. It's called being human and a father." also meaning that it takes a personal matter to understand equal rights and make it "real"

    10.) weird can you quote me one time saying you are not pro SSM? nope another strawman by you that completely fails and facts win again. This is about your lack of understanding that it doesnt need a personal selfish experience to understand equal rights and make it "real"
    sorry there isnt one single lie in my posts. Nobody honest, educate and objective takes your claims seriously. if you disagree quote the lie and prove it, your attempts will fail just like your claims. ill be waiting. This will be fun!
    Last edited by AGENT J; 11-19-14 at 02:37 AM.
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  8. #118
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    Re: Gay marriage issue now linked to Ohio senator

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) again this strawman completely fails but keep trying to sell it
    and guess what its still sad that it takes a personal relationship to someone to respect equal rights
    2.) never said otherwise thats why your lie failed but he was definitely taught about equal rights
    3.) your posts prove otherwise
    4.) never claimed otherwise another failure on your part i notice you still havent quoted me saying the lie you claimed?? very telling
    5.) another failed strawman never claimed you did lol
    6.) and yet you cant support your claims on top of his words, your post fails again
    7.) translation you cant quote me saying the lie you made up
    8.) you claimed you dont understand why equal rights is mentioned, if you admit they are the same then you shouldnt be confused LMAO your post fails again
    9.) the ones you stated and i already quoted and you dodge. . .here ill do it again

    do you have ANYTHING that supports your claims of:
    "Gay marriage hasn't been a front and center issue for the last 40 years." so that doesnt make it matter to equal rights and make it "real"
    or
    "The issue of gay marriage became very real to him because of his son. That isn't sad. It's called being human and a father." also meaning that it takes a personal matter to understand equal rights and make it "real"

    10.) weird can you quote me one time saying you are not pro SSM? nope another strawman by you that completely fails and facts win again. This is about your lack of understanding that it doesnt need a personal selfish experience to understand equal rights and make it "real"
    sorry there isnt one single lie in my posts. Nobody honest, educate and objective takes your claims seriously. if you disagree quote the lie and prove it, your attempts will fail just like your claims. ill be waiting. This will be fun!
    You never pay attention, do you? Just keep on with these trolls posts.

    do you have ANYTHING that supports your claims of:
    "Gay marriage hasn't been a front and center issue for the last 40 years." so that doesnt make it matter to equal rights and make it "real"
    or
    "The issue of gay marriage became very real to him because of his son. That isn't sad. It's called being human and a father." also meaning that it takes a personal matter to understand equal rights and make it "real"


    1) I can't prove a negative. You have to prove it has been a front and center issue for 40 years in order to make my statement a lie.
    2) I already told you to Google Rob Portman and his own words and thoughts. I'm not your research assistant.

    The rest of your babbling incoherent ranting post is too boring to respond to. Now go away and keep making the people who post rational, sane posts on the issue cringe with every nonsensical post you make.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

  9. #119
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    Re: Gay marriage issue now linked to Ohio senator

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    You never pay attention, do you? Just keep on with these trolls posts.

    do you have ANYTHING that supports your claims of:
    "Gay marriage hasn't been a front and center issue for the last 40 years." so that doesnt make it matter to equal rights and make it "real"
    or
    "The issue of gay marriage became very real to him because of his son. That isn't sad. It's called being human and a father." also meaning that it takes a personal matter to understand equal rights and make it "real"


    1) I can't prove a negative. You have to prove it has been a front and center issue for 40 years in order to make my statement a lie.
    2) I already told you to Google Rob Portman and his own words and thoughts. I'm not your research assistant.

    The rest of your babbling incoherent ranting post is too boring to respond to. Now go away and keep making the people who post rational, sane posts on the issue cringe with every nonsensical post you make.
    translation: you cant back up your claims nor can you quote me saying the lies you made up
    got it, i knew you would dodge it, facts win again

    please let us know when you can, thank you
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
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  10. #120
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    Re: Gay marriage issue now linked to Ohio senator

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Being pro gay marriage I would think would hurt Portman in the primaries if he decided to run. I do not think he could ever be nominated by the GOP. Now I have never heard of Portman having presidential ambitions before either. That is new to me.

    There are a lot of fiscal conservatives out there unaligned with the Republicans because of their stances on social issues. I think one day the GOP will have to decide between the religious right and those unaligned fiscal conservatives.
    Again we have a thread full of single issue voters, like SSM is the most pressing issue of our times. Terrorism, decaying economy, Putin, China, the Middle East........none of that matters as long as we get to stroll down the aisle.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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