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Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

How much will it cost to find and deport every illiegal immigrant?

Besides some of these illiegals have been here for so long that they have developed roots here and their life expierance has been spent living in America. These people have lost their ties to their original country.

A lot. Many things we do in this country cost a lot. We can reduce those costs by openly enforcing the law with plenty of very public deportations. That should account for a good many self deportations, especially if we enact asset seizure.

That last, tough titties, that's the cost of crime, you get caught, you lose your advantage.
 
Since none of this is true, it's entirely impossible for me to respond to you directly.
I will say that all Americans, including GOPs, want compromise and give a damn about the Constitution and the American people.

I can hardly wait until Sen. McConnell whips his own caucus into line.
He's even promised a five-day week, which actually heartens me that he is serious .

Go watch Forrest Gump again. Pay close attention. He uses a line many times throughout that movie which you might want to consider and ponder the meaning of.
 
A lot. Many things we do in this country cost a lot. We can reduce those costs by openly enforcing the law with plenty of very public deportations. That should account for a good many self deportations, especially if we enact asset seizure.

That last, tough titties, that's the cost of crime, you get caught, you lose your advantage.

Aperentlly some people answer to a higher calling.

FOXNews.com - Immigration treats church sanctuary carefully - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials have arrested illegal immigrants by the hundreds in raids at factories, restaurants, malls, farms and meat packing plants, but they have handled cases involving churches delicately.

"Our agency takes enforcement actions when we deem it appropriate," said Julie Myers, assistant secretary of homeland security for ICE. "I am personally not aware of an instance when ICE has gone into a church. That being said, if there was a particular, extremely egregious, ax murderer or something else, that's not to say we would not enforce the law at that time."

Avoiding churches is unofficial policy for federal immigration officials, according to Doris Meissner, a former commissioner at the Immigration and Naturalization Service, the agency that oversaw immigration until the Department of Homeland Security was formed in 2003.

Since the 1970s the unwritten rule has been "no churches, no playgrounds, no schools," said Meissner, now a senior fellow at the Migration Policy Institute in Washington.
 
Another strand of spaghetti, you're invoking sanctuary now? No, the church should not be a hiding place for criminals. Nor should it be housing illegals. Btw, the reasons for the policy you mention has absolutely nothing to do with compassion and everything to do with bad press.

Oh I bring it up because some people are able to distinguish the real criminals are.

And it is not about bad press.

Presbyterian church in Arizona offers sanctuary to undocumented migrant


TUCSON Ariz. (Reuters) - For the second time since May, an Arizona Presbyterian church with a long history of sheltering Central American refugees is offering sanctuary to an undocumented immigrant who faces deportation, its pastor said on Monday.

Tucson's Southside Presbyterian Church will protect local housekeeper Rosa Imelda Robles Loreto unless Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) stalls or cancels her deportation by Friday, when she is due to be returned to her native Mexico, said Pastor Alison Harrington.

"She owns a house. She's a taxpaying member of the community. She has two beautiful boys and a loving husband. She has no criminal history," Harrington said.

"Her goal is to stay with her family."

Loreto came to Tucson in 1999, only returning to Mexico to have her two sons. Her husband and children, who are also undocumented, are not targeted for deportation, Harrington said.

She said the church chose Loreto because she is a good example of a category of undocumented immigrant specifically made a low priority in a 2011 memo issued by then-ICE Director John Morton.

In the memo, Morton offered field offices guidance in the use of "prosecutorial discretion" in pursuing immigration cases.

And here is the document in question.

http://www.ice.gov/doclib/secure-communities/pdf/prosecutorial-discretion-memo.pdf
 
Can you tell me how many of the illiegals are refugees? Can you identify each one without having to ask qestions?

if you are a refugee, you will have a legal status, [paperwork] if you are an illegal you will not.

do i favor anyone stopped and questioned, ...no.

do i favor being questioned [if stopped my law enforcement for something] if they are in the u.s. illegal.....absolutely.
 
if you are a refugee, you will have a legal status, [paperwork] if you are an illegal you will not.

do i favor anyone stopped and questioned, ...no.

do i favor being questioned [if stopped my law enforcement for something] if they are in the u.s. illegal.....absolutely.

How do you base your initial suspicions on who is a illiegal though? The answer is that most people base their initial suspicions on visual information, which can be biased and variable.
 
How do you base your initial suspicions on who is a illiegal though? The answer is that most people base their initial suspicions on visual information, which can be biased and variable.

let me just ask a simple question:

if someone is stopped by law enforcement [violation], are you against asking their legal status?
 
Are you at it again? Tossing more irrelevant stuff out there? Trying to get something to stick to the wall? Trying to find SOMETHING to justify your willingness to have Obama take the law into his own hands?


Here's a secret, dude...you won't find it.

Its just that simple...

You don't give a damn about whether these people suffer as long as they are punished according to your selfish desire to see punishment delivered. Punishment that is as cold and robotic as Hal 9000.
 
Its just that simple...

You don't give a damn about whether these people suffer as long as they are punished according to your selfish desire to see punishment delivered. Punishment that is as cold and robotic as Hal 9000.

Why should I care if they suffer because they made a bad choice, broke our law...entered our country illegally?

Do you care if a guy suffers when he goes to jail for armed robbery? Have you seen a judge sentence that kind of guy to jail? Do you think the judge cares if he suffers?

No. The guy broke the law. End of story.


Oh...and I don't want to "see punishment delivered". I just want them to leave my country...the one they don't care enough about to enter legally.
 
Its just that simple...

You don't give a damn about whether these people suffer as long as they are punished according to your selfish desire to see punishment delivered. Punishment that is as cold and robotic as Hal 9000.

And I already found the thing i need to justify my position: my empathy towards the suffering, what I have been brought to believe.

I believe it is wrong to treat every criminal with the same merciless treatment reserved for real scumbags like geoglffry dahmer or al Capone. I especially believe that justice should be measured enough to show restraint.
 
Why should I care if they suffer because they made a bad choice, broke our law...entered our country illegally?

Do you care if a guy suffers when he goes to jail for armed robbery? Have you seen a judge sentence that kind of guy to jail? Do you think the judge cares if he suffers?

No. The guy broke the law. End of story.

I guess that is the end of the story of the marine who got locked up in Mexico. "He broke the law, end of story."
 
Why should I care if they suffer because they made a bad choice, broke our law...entered our country illegally?

Do you care if a guy suffers when he goes to jail for armed robbery? Have you seen a judge sentence that kind of guy to jail? Do you think the judge cares if he suffers?

No. The guy broke the law. End of story.


Oh...and I don't want to "see punishment delivered". I just want them to leave my country...the one they don't care enough about to enter legally.

Don't you think that after ten years of living here they might consider it their country too?
 
And I already found the thing i need to justify my position: my empathy towards the suffering, what I have been brought to believe.

I believe it is wrong to treat every criminal with the same merciless treatment reserved for real scumbags like geoglffry dahmer or al Capone. I especially believe that justice should be measured enough to show restraint.

How about the illegal alien who, first, broke our law by entering illegally and then, ran some innocent young man down, killed him and continues to live illegally in our country?

Do you care if he suffers?


Tell me....do you have any respect for our rule of law? Or are you perfectly willing to let Obama take the law into his own hand?
 
Don't you think that after ten years of living here they might consider it their country too?

They can think what they want. Doesn't matter.

It's NOT their country if they entered illegally.


Damn, dude...you just keep fling stuff against the wall...and it just doesn't stick.


btw, yesterday you suggested we both just lay out our personal position on this issue. I did. Will you?
 
I guess that is the end of the story of the marine who got locked up in Mexico. "He broke the law, end of story."

LOL!!

Are you REALLY comparing that Marine who accidentally entered Mexico and would have been perfectly happy to turn around and leave...to someone to deliberately enters the US and does everything they can to avoid being caught and sent back to their country?

Now you are just being pathetic.
 
How about the illegal alien who, first, broke our law by entering illegally and then, ran some innocent young man down, killed him and continues to live illegally in our country?

Do you care if he suffers?


Tell me....do you have any respect for our rule of law? Or are you perfectly willing to let Obama take the law into his own hand?

I respect the law enough to know that it is not as simple as you make it to be

In Your scenario the answer would be no, I don't care about someone who crossed the border illegally and commited murder and I believe that man should be brought to justice.

But that is not the only scenario that plays out in this debate. For instance, what if an illiegal broke into the country, falls in love with and Marries a legal resident of this country, they raise two children and settle down as a family, with the immigrant being the sole breadwinner for the family. Suppose the illiegal and his family live like this for ten years, until a minor traffic accident results in the illiegal being discovered by the immigration authorities. Tell me what the immigration authorities should do? There is no denying that he broke the law by crossing the border, but apart from that he has spent ten years living in America, raising a family, and has not gotten into trouble until the traffic incident. His family are legal American citizens and 10 years of living in America have effectivly removed any connection to his original home country.

Is there anything to gain by deporting this illiegal, seperating him from his family?
 
LOL!!

Are you REALLY comparing that Marine who accidentally entered Mexico and would have been perfectly happy to turn around and leave...to someone to deliberately enters the US and does everything they can to avoid being caught and sent back to their country?

Now you are just being pathetic.

No I am comparing the treatment of Americans that break the laws abroad to the treatment of foreigners that break the law of our country.

Don't expect mercy from another country if you don't show any in return
 
They can think what they want. Doesn't matter.

It's NOT their country if they entered illegally.


Damn, dude...you just keep fling stuff against the wall...and it just doesn't stick.


btw, yesterday you suggested we both just lay out our personal position on this issue. I did. Will you?

My belief is this: not all these illiegals deserve the same harsh treatment of deportation. Some of these people could be given leniency in some circumstances.
 
No I am comparing the treatment of Americans that break the laws abroad to the treatment of foreigners that break the law of our country.

Don't expect mercy from another country if you don't show any in return

You really don't know what goes on, do you?

When thousands of children entered our country illegally last summer, did we chain them, naked, to a bed and leave them there for 12 hours? That's what happened to that Marine, so quit your ridiculous hyperbole.

This is just another dumbass thing you've flung against the wall. It doesn't stick.
 
I respect the law enough to know that it is not as simple as you make it to be

In Your scenario the answer would be no, I don't care about someone who crossed the border illegally and commited murder and I believe that man should be brought to justice.

But that is not the only scenario that plays out in this debate. For instance, what if an illiegal broke into the country, falls in love with and Marries a legal resident of this country, they raise two children and settle down as a family, with the immigrant being the sole breadwinner for the family. Suppose the illiegal and his family live like this for ten years, until a minor traffic accident results in the illiegal being discovered by the immigration authorities. Tell me what the immigration authorities should do? There is no denying that he broke the law by crossing the border, but apart from that he has spent ten years living in America, raising a family, and has not gotten into trouble until the traffic incident. His family are legal American citizens and 10 years of living in America have effectivly removed any connection to his original home country.

Is there anything to gain by deporting this illiegal, seperating him from his family?

Why should that illegal alien get any special treatment? He broke our laws.

In any case, your hypothetical situation is illogical and unrealistic.

1. How is he going to get legally married if he is not a legal resident? Is his State going to sanction his marriage?

2. If he does want to marry a legal resident, there is a process...based on established laws...that he must go through to be able to do that. If he doesn't do that, he is breaking yet ANOTHER law.

3. How is he the sole breadwinner if he is an illegal alien? Oh...wait...he's breaking MORE laws and he's being aided and abetted by US employers who are ALSO breaking the law. Am I supposed to have some compassion for that employer, too?

4. If he's caught and deported, too bad...but his family, as legal residents, will be taken care of by our very liberal entitlement system. That is you and I, as citizens and taxpayers, paying the cost of his bad choices. But all he has to do is enter legally and everything will be okay.


btw, I lived in Germany for 6 1/2 years. I didn't lose any connection to my country of birth. Ten years wouldn't have done it either.

Also, I submit you DON'T have respect for our laws if you think it's okay for everyone from the President on down to the illegal alien to break them...just because they don't like them. No...for you, the ends justify the means.
 
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You really don't know what goes on, do you?

When thousands of children entered our country illegally last summer, did we chain them, naked, to a bed and leave them there for 12 hours? That's what happened to that Marine, so quit your ridiculous hyperbole.

This is just another dumbass thing you've flung against the wall. It doesn't stick.

You are right about one thing. I am flinging all the core arguments of what I think is right and just only to see it rejected by some entity i cannot fathom or reason with.

I can not understand what conservatives consider immigration policy. Do they see the hundreds of undocumented children in some way that I don't? Yes they broke the law, but do conservatives not care about the fact that these kids are victims too? Where is the empathy? The compassion? The mercy?


I cannot understand what makes people ignorant to suffering, and that is when I contemplate darker motivations behind conservative logic.
 
let me just ask a simple question:

if someone is stopped by law enforcement [violation], are you against asking their legal status?
Not if there is reasonable suspicion. If there isn't reasonable suspicion, then I am against it, just like the Constitution is.
 
My belief is this: not all these illiegals deserve the same harsh treatment of deportation. Some of these people could be given leniency in some circumstances.

I haven't heard of ANY illegal alien receiving the "same" harsh treatment. You got any more hyperbole?
 
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