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Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

Actually, they attempted to and showed great gains in polls. That was until the reality of Obama-care came to light. Many of those who cried out about the shutdown were suddenly asking themselves why the Republicans didn't do more to stop it and help the TEA Party guys.

The difference this time vs the Obama-care shutdown would be there is far less ambiguity about who is at fault. Obama's reticence to come to an agreement and to act constitutionally will be much more evident this time around. He will no longer have a Dem led senate to hide behind.

It remains impossible for the President to come to agreement with a GOP that can't agree with itself.
This has been the over-arching problem with every major issue since the House with its rhetorical TEA-party noose around their necks took over.

I'll be waiting anxiously for the House to allow anything on IR to hit their floor and be debated.
But I won't be holding my breath .
 
Why not have the House throw a bone to the President by actually working on their own compromise IR legislation?
Now that they have used inaction this past year to win an election, what are they waiting for?

This would indeed give Mr. Obama a reason to not act unilaterally.
As with other issues, when will this House act and then agree to go to Joint-Conference, the Constitutional mechanism?

And yes, I'm fully aware of how scared the GOP House is with acting on IR after what happened to Cantor ?

Obama isn't giving them enough time to craft a compromise bill. He wants them to do something "right now", and the only thing they can do right now is pass the Senate crap. That's what Obama wants...not a compromise bill.
 
So are you ignoring the fact that the House refuses to come up with its own IR?
In no way is that a strawman.

Having both chambers come up with their own act, which the Senate has, but the House hasn't;
and then go to Joint-conference is the American Constitutional way.

I know you'll join me in this effort to get the House doing something on IR, anything, so we can get to a JC and preempt any EA by the President .
No, if you'd like to debate a strawman of your own creation you're perfectly capable of doing that without my involvement. Your question has nothing to do with my statement or the conversation I'm having.
 
A green card is a direct step in the naturalization process, as one is required to be a permanent residence to be naturalized. I would see granting ANY illegal aliens permanent legal residence status as beginning them in the process of becoming naturalized and outside of the scope of the Presidency unless EXPLICTELY vested to the President via law, and then ONLY in ways specifically stated in said law.

Rumors of Obama issuing green cards by EO are as lacking in credibility as the idea that he is going to naturalize immigrants by EO.

Heck, why don't we speculate that he's going to give citizenship to invaders from Mars while we're at it?
 
The House could have been working on this IR since they went on vacation last July 31st.
The House could have been working on any small step this past year but stopped when Cantor got voted out for trying the most baby of small steps.

The problem since the 2011 grand-bargain fell through is that Boehner has no control of his own caucus.
He refuses to act in any way without 218 votes from his own caucus.
Which you and I both know he still can't get .

Obama isn't giving them enough time to craft a compromise bill. He wants them to do something "right now", and the only thing they can do right now is pass the Senate crap. That's what Obama wants...not a compromise bill.
 
So are you ignoring the fact that the House refuses to come up with its own IR?

No, that's just irrelevant to the discussion and back and forth that you quoted...which was dealing with iguanaman's claims that it's Obama's constitutional duty to veto and not sign any bill he thinks will harm the country. Whether or not the House has passed an immigration reform bill is ENTIRELY irrelevant to my question to him, as to whether or not that same notion (that it's a politicians constitutional duty to not support anything he thinks will harm the country) cuts both ways.

In no way is that a strawman.

Actually, yeah...it is. It's attempting to beat up some notion (that the Republicans in the house hasn't passed immigration reform?) that has ZERO to do with what was actually being discussed.
 
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You're being intellectually dishonest.
The polls say yes to immigration reform, but not to anything like what Obama is proposing. People want them out, not in.

How does the Chamber of Commerce wing of the GOP feel?
The wing that defeated the TEA-party in the 2014 primaries and put up far better candidates this year that actually won ?
 
Rumors of Obama issuing green cards by EO are as lacking in credibility as the idea that he is going to naturalize immigrants by EO.

Heck, why don't we speculate that he's going to give citizenship to invaders from Mars while we're at it?

Rumors may be lacking credibility, but they're still actually perculating out there. So far I haven't seen any rumors about invaders from Mars, and considering green cards actually exist unlike people from Mars, I think it's a bit more reasonable to discuss.

That said, I'm sorry you've got a bug up your britches over my highlighting the only way I'd support the notion of a shut down, while noting here and in other threads that we absolutely don't know what's going to happen and it's likely to be less than what some people are fearing...but tough ****. You don't think he'll give out green card and don't think it's worth ANY discussion to any degree in any fashion. Cool, noted. I'd suggest not bothering to read my posts on the subject as it'll just annoy you, because I'll continue to discuss the only way I'd support a shut down in threads talking about whether or not a shut down will happen or be threatened.
 
Rumors may be lacking credibility, but they're still actually perculating out there. So far I haven't seen any rumors about invaders from Mars, and considering green cards actually exist unlike people from Mars, I think it's a bit more reasonable to discuss.

There are rumors that Obama is a Kenyan Muslim. That doesn't make that worthy of discussion.

That said, I'm sorry you've got a bug up your britches over my highlighting the only way I'd support the notion of a shut down, while noting here and in other threads that we absolutely don't know what's going to happen and it's likely to be less than what some people are fearing...but tough ****. You don't think he'll give out green card and don't think it's worth ANY discussion to any degree in any fashion. Cool, noted. I'd suggest not bothering to read my posts on the subject as it'll just annoy you, because I'll continue to discuss the only way I'd support a shut down in threads talking about whether or not a shut down will happen or be threatened.

You are whining about other people posting about things you consider irrelevant (but aren't) while promoting the wildest of incredible rumors which are not relevant to a reasonable (ie based on facts) discussion. If my pointing out the fact that your speculations have no reasonable nor credible basis in reality annoy *you*, then I suggest that you not read *my* posts. Otherwise, it's just tough **** on you.
 
Actually, yeah...it is. It's attempting to beat up some notion (that the Republicans in the house hasn't passed immigration reform?)
that has ZERO to do with what was actually being discussed.

The President is being forced to act because the House hasn't acted.
That's called cause-and-effect, not strawman.

I realize you have no defense of the House inaction, which can't be defended, so you want to make this about the President.
We wouldn't be talking about what actions Mr. Obama would be taking if the House had done its job.

With many of the common-sense actions like my friend Beaudreax has put out along with like-minded GOP Congressmen.
This country needs more Republicans like him if we're to get compromise on IR and move forward .
 
The House could have been working on this IR since they went on vacation last July 31st.
The House could have been working on any small step this past year but stopped when Cantor got voted out for trying the most baby of small steps.

The problem since the 2011 grand-bargain fell through is that Boehner has no control of his own caucus.
He refuses to act in any way without 218 votes from his own caucus.
Which you and I both know he still can't get .

Ummm...how can the House work on a bill when they are on vacation? Also, they've had other things on their mind...just like the Democrats...the past few months, like that election.

That's the big fallacy of the "but the Republicans aren't doing anything" argument. Heck, if you want to go that route, why didn't the Democrats pass something when they had a total lock on the government in 2009?
 
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Rumors of Obama issuing green cards by EO are as lacking in credibility as the idea that he is going to naturalize immigrants by EO.

Heck, why don't we speculate that he's going to give citizenship to invaders from Mars while we're at it?

For sure...at this point, until Obama actually announces his EO action, it's all rumors. But the green card rumor doesn't lack credibility. After all, he's ordered millions of the things to be printed and delivered.
 
There are rumors that Obama is a Kenyan Muslim. That doesn't make that worthy of discussion.

Actually it was wildly discussed quite a bit on this forum when the idiocy first started making headway.

You are whining about other people posting about things you consider irrelevant (but aren't) while promoting the wildest of incredible rumors which are not relevant to a reasonable (ie based on facts) discussion.

Where have I complained about people posting stuff that is irrelevant to the topic? I've had an issue with someone strawmanning me, because that's a poor debate tactic. I did not say that whether or not the house passing a bill on immigration reform is irrelevant to the topic (It's not). I said it's irrelevant to the post he quoted from me, which was a discussion with iguanaman, on whether or not it's a politicians "constitutional duty" to not support something he thinks is "wrong for america"....which it absolutely IS irrelevant to. Whether or not the house passed an immigration bill is 100% irrelevant to whether or not it's a politicans constitutional duty to deny support for something they feel is wrong for the country.

If my pointing out the fact that your speculations have no reasonable nor credible basis in reality annoy *you*

Doesn't annoy me, it's just confusing in the ridiculousness of pointing out something I've already acknowledged. It's like me saying the sky is blue and you popping up to go "YEAH! Well, the sky is blue! WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT? HUH!?"

I've acknowledged, repeatedly now, that it's unlikely that he actually goes the route of naturalization or a step along that path. But this thread is about a government shut down, so I was referencing the only way I'd support such a thing in relation to the rumors (and EVERYTHING at this point on the matter is a rumor, which I've again repeatedly) while acknowlding the reality is it's likely something less than that and as such a shutdown would be wrong.
 
Why didn't Obama deal with immigration in 2009 like he promised to, when he had a high approval rating and control of both Houses?
 
The President is being forced to act because the House hasn't acted.

Iguanaman's comment and my back and forth with him was not regarding executive orders, but rather the potentail immigrations that congress could pass possibly in counter to such things. This is why you continue to strawman, because you clearly didn't bother to read the exchange.

His comment was regarding what the President should do IF a bill is passed, specifically that he should veto it if he feels it's "wrong for america". It wasn't about executive actions. Your continued strawmanning just highlights the fact you're acting on a knee jerk reaction to my post as opposed to actually bothering to read the discussion that was occuring. It's sad that you just continue to double down on the fallacy laden posts as opposed ot actually admitting your error.
 
Actually it was wildly discussed quite a bit on this forum when the idiocy first started making headway.

The fact that it was discussed didn't make it any less idiotic, just as the way the issuance of citizenship or green cards doesn't become any less idiotic to speculate about because people (including you) are discussing it.

Where have I complained about people posting stuff that is irrelevant to the topic? I've had an issue with someone strawmanning me, because that's a poor debate tactic. I did not say that whether or not the house passing a bill on immigration reform is irrelevant to the topic (It's not). I said it's irrelevant to the post he quoted from me, which was a discussion with iguanaman, on whether or not it's a politicians "constitutional duty" to not support something he thinks is "wrong for america"....which it absolutely IS irrelevant to. Whether or not the house passed an immigration bill is 100% irrelevant to whether or not it's a politicans constitutional duty to deny support for something they feel is wrong for the country.

I looked back at the posts, and you're right. I misunderstood your comments. My bad.


Doesn't annoy me, it's just confusing in the ridiculousness of pointing out something I've already acknowledged. It's like me saying the sky is blue and you popping up to go "YEAH! Well, the sky is blue! WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT? HUH!?"

I've acknowledged, repeatedly now, that it's unlikely that he actually goes the route of naturalization or a step along that path. But this thread is about a government shut down, so I was referencing the only way I'd support such a thing in relation to the rumors (and EVERYTHING at this point on the matter is a rumor, which I've again repeatedly) while acknowlding the reality is it's likely something less than that and as such a shutdown would be wrong.

I am glad to hear that it doesn't annoy you because I intend on continuing to point out the absurdity of such hackish speculation

And it's not "likely something less than that" It's pretty much guaranteed because, as you have pointed out, granting permanent residency or citizenship are powers POTUS does not possess.
 
Why didn't Obama deal with immigration in 2009 like he promised to, when he had a high approval rating and control of both Houses?

Priorities health reform before anything else. While both sides enjoy going with the "You can do more than one thing at a time" argument when it suits them, the reality is that passing major legislation is an extremely tasking situation that is incredibly time consuming. He utilized all his political capital he had focused no health care reform, and it took quite a while in large part becuase there wasn't even completely agreement within his own party on how to move forward with it. The reality is that Immigration would've likely resulted in a VERY similar fight, where despite the super majority it would still have been a massive undertaking to just whip his own party into agreement.

That doesn't mean it's unreasonable to questoin why he didn't prioritize it higher, or more specific to this instance why...after 6 years...it MUST happen now. But it is a pretty understandable answer to why it wasn't done in 2009. You can only take on so many major undertakings at one time.
 
Priorities health reform before anything else. While both sides enjoy going with the "You can do more than one thing at a time" argument when it suits them, the reality is that passing major legislation is an extremely tasking situation that is incredibly time consuming. He utilized all his political capital he had focused no health care reform, and it took quite a while in large part becuase there wasn't even completely agreement within his own party on how to move forward with it. The reality is that Immigration would've likely resulted in a VERY similar fight, where despite the super majority it would still have been a massive undertaking to just whip his own party into agreement.

That doesn't mean it's unreasonable to questoin why he didn't prioritize it higher, or more specific to this instance why...after 6 years...it MUST happen now. But it is a pretty understandable answer to why it wasn't done in 2009. You can only take on so many major undertakings at one time.

Not sure I agree with this. Multitasking isn't a skill only those of us in the private sector need to rely on in order to do our jobs. Not all 200+ Democratic Congresspersons and 60 Democratic Senators spent all day every day writing the content of the ACA.
 
Not sure I agree with this. Multitasking isn't a skill only those of us in the private sector need to rely on in order to do our jobs. Not all 200+ Democratic Congresspersons and 60 Democratic Senators spent all day every day writing the content of the ACA.

Both houses of Congress have commitees that handle the writing of specific pieces of legeslation.
 
The President is being forced to act because the House hasn't acted.
That's called cause-and-effect, not strawman.

No, that's not how our system of government works and you should know that. If the house has different priorities as to legislation does not grant the POTUS the power to legislate from the executive branch.

I realize you have no defense of the House inaction, which can't be defended, so you want to make this about the President.
We wouldn't be talking about what actions Mr. Obama would be taking if the House had done its job.

With many of the common-sense actions like my friend Beaudreax has put out along with like-minded GOP Congressmen.
This country needs more Republicans like him if we're to get compromise on IR and move forward .

One, any bill coming from house republicans isn't going to see the light in the senate until Reid is gone as majority leader. Reid made that promise long ago and has kept it. Not to mention, as has already been stated by the incoming republican leadership, IR is not their first priority. The POTUS wants them to follow his TODO list, but it really doesn't work that way.

Besides, Obama and the dems want the repubs tied up in an immigration debate.
 
No, that's not how our system of government works and you should know that. If the house has different priorities as to legislation does not grant the POTUS the power to legislate from the executive branch.



One, any bill coming from house republicans isn't going to see the light in the senate until Reid is gone as majority leader. Reid made that promise long ago and has kept it. Not to mention, as has already been stated by the incoming republican leadership, IR is not their first priority. The POTUS wants them to follow his TODO list, but it really doesn't work that way.

The conservatives want the president to enact an conservative agenda, but that's not the way things work either.
 
The conservatives want the president to enact an conservative agenda, but that's not the way things work either.

You're right, it doesn't work that way - the POTUS does not enact, congress does that.
 
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