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Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

TheNextEra said:
Do yourself a favor and read my comments again. I commented on what you just said. More proof you are not actually reading posts and only skimming.
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I did read your post. It's obvious you're busted, since you took the insult road.
 
apdst said:
I did read your post. It's obvious you're busted, since you took the insult road.
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Yet again, proving you wrong. I commented by saying:

Now, given that the GOP have won these last elections I would not consider it a waste if they were to try and do it as the tables and playing field have changed.
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Do you ever stop spewing diarrhea comments? They didn't have a mandate previously to waste time and money. 54 times in 4 years is a waste of time and money.

Now that they have won the senate, I would expect them to do it again and don't think it is a waste of time and money for them to try again. When will you stop being so partisan that it blinds you to anyone else's comments?
 
TheNextEra said:
Ok, so you are ok with wasting time and money as long as the GOP is doing it. Got it, thank you for your clarification.

As I said before, I don't think a couple of times a year is a waste, but 54 in 4 years is a waste of time and money regardless of who is in control.
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LOL!!

Actually, I said nothing of the sort, so the clarification resides in the depths of your own mind, only.

You should know by now that playing dumbass little forum tricks doesn't work with me.
 
Mycroft said:
LOL!!

Actually, I said nothing of the sort, so the clarification resides in the depths of your own mind, only.

You should know by now that playing dumbass little forum tricks doesn't work with me.
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54 times in 4 years is a waste of time and money that YOU approve of. So my comment stands. A couple of times a year I can understand, 54 in 4 years? No way.
 
Hatuey said:
Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration



In contrast, last time the GOP shut down the government:

Poll: Major damage to GOP after shutdown, and broad dissatisfaction with government - The Washington Post



Polls: Shutdown nightmare for Republicans - Tal Kopan - POLITICO.com
Poll shows Republicans taking blame for government shutdown - Los Angeles Times
Boomerang! Poll Reveals GOP's Government Shutdown Bolstered Obamacare's Popularity By 20% - Forbes
Poll: Government Shutdown Damages GOP - Business Insider

I'm sure that this time, a government shutdown will be positive for the GOPs image. Flight attendants, PR appointees and HS students will support this and it will give the GOP an even bigger majority in 2016. Using the shutdown option will also bring in support from Independents. They seem to be in favor of such things.
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A vocal group of conservatives in the House of Representatives is pressing to use government funding as leverage to prevent any White House moves that would allow millions of undocumented immigrants to stay and work in the United States.
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How does one "defund" not deporting undocumented residents? How much money does the govt need to "not deport"?
 
TheNextEra said:
Yet again, proving you wrong. I commented by saying:



Do you ever stop spewing diarrhea comments? They didn't have a mandate previously to waste time and money. 54 times in 4 years is a waste of time and money.

Now that they have won the senate, I would expect them to do it again and don't think it is a waste of time and money for them to try again. When will you stop being so partisan that it blinds you to anyone else's comments?
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You don't consider the 2010 election, in which the Democrats got shellacked because of Obamacare and a continued majority of Americans disliking Obamacare since BEFORE it was shoved down their throats to be a mandate? But now...suddenly...the Democrats get shellacked again, but not quite as badly, and you think the Republicans have a mandate?

Dude...the Republicans have had a mandate to dump Obamacare for 4 years that has been blocked by Harry. He is the source of any "waste of time and money".
 
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The answer is simple, defund the office of the POTUS. Well within congress' budgetary powers. Let Obama explain to his wife why they aren't getting a paycheck. Let them get their own coffee. :mrgreen:
 
Mycroft said:
You don't consider the 2010 election, in which the Democrats got shellacked because of Obamacare and a continued majority of Americans disliking Obamacare since BEFORE it was shoved down their throats to be a mandate?
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Again, trying a couple of times each year I can understand. 54 times in 4 years no way. If you want something changed that bad, you either go to the courts (which I understand why they did) or you win elections. You don't continue to waste time and money.

Dude...the Republicans have had a mandate to dump Obamacare for 4 years that has been blocked by Harry. He is the source of any "waste of time and money".
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And when it doesn't happen after a couple of times each year, you don't keep doing it, you wait until the next year. 54 times in 4 years is a waste. Plain and simple, regardless of who's in power.
 
sangha said:
How does one "defund" not deporting undocumented residents? How much money does the govt need to "not deport"?
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Not deporting is only part of what Obama will likely do with his EO.
 
Zyphlin said:
We don't know for sure what the Presidents executive action will actually be.

If it in any way, shape, or form naturalizes ANY person here illegally to any degree...I've grown to be fully in favor of both impeachment and a shutdown, as the constitutional singularly sets the Congress as the entity within our governmental structure that has dominion over naturalization.

However...

Anything short of that, I'm against forcing a shut down. I am however growing to be okay with using the pandora's box that Harry Reid opened by allowing reconcilliation to be used on a bill that was not explicitely focused first and foremost as a budget or tax reform bill, and utilize reconcilliation to pass immigration laws counter acting any executive action the President takes on this matter.

Anything short of some form of naturalization means that it can be reversed and changed should a Republican President become the POTUS. However, naturalization is an absolutely "no coming back" moment and for that I'd be willing to see the Republicans use any and all means they have to stop it.

Note, I was not in favor of the last shutdown and felt it was a poor fiscal and political move.

But once you naturalize any of these illegals there's no going back. Even if the executive action is deemed unconstitutional, even if it gets overturned by a later president or by Congress if the President keeps his word (yeah right, see 2008), once those individuals have anything close to naturalization it becomes nearly impossible to actually strip it from them. EVERY ability we have to to stop that MUST be used.
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There hasn't been one credible report that Obama plans on naturalizing anyone.
 
TheNextEra said:
Again, trying a couple of times each year I can understand. 54 times in 4 years no way. If you want something changed that bad, you either go to the courts (which I understand why they did) or you win elections. You don't continue to waste time and money.



And when it doesn't happen after a couple of times each year, you don't keep doing it, you wait until the next year. 54 times in 4 years is a waste. Plain and simple, regardless of who's in power.
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shrug...

Okay. You have your standards on the acceptable number of attempts to pass legislation. Your opinion.
 
Mycroft said:
shrug...

Okay. You have your standards on the acceptable number of attempts to pass legislation. Your opinion.
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And you think it is ok to waste time and money as long as it is the GOP doing it. You would be screaming bloody murder if the Dems were doing this under a GOP administration and congress.
 
TheNextEra said:
And you think it is ok to waste time and money as long as it is the GOP doing it. You would be screaming bloody murder if the Dems were doing this under a GOP administration and congress.
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Didn't you get the memo earlier?
 
I am pretty certain that within the next 18 months not only will we see a shutdown, but also another actual credit downgrade if not outright default.

MCConnell thinks he can control the new crazies and force Boehner in line to secure his legacy as Majority Leader; I think he's WAY too optimistic on that working.
 
TheNextEra said:
Again, trying a couple of times each year I can understand. 54 times in 4 years no way. If you want something changed that bad, you either go to the courts (which I understand why they did) or you win elections. You don't continue to waste time and money.



And when it doesn't happen after a couple of times each year, you don't keep doing it, you wait until the next year. 54 times in 4 years is a waste. Plain and simple, regardless of who's in power.
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They did win a big election so at least their $1+ million per vote will now be spent well.

For the sake of historical accuracy, they've actually only voted on a repeal of Obamacare 6 times. The other 50 or so votes were limited to defunding it to delaying provisions. And some of the votes corresponded with budget votes.
 
sangha said:
There hasn't been one credible report that Obama plans on naturalizing anyone.
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This is why in every single thread I've discussed this I've highlighted, again and again, we don't know for sure what he's going to end up trying to do so there's no reason to get in any kind of serious uproar over this.

The discussion was about shutting down the government. The ONLY action that would get me supporting that would be if he tried to naturalize anyone in some form. I don't know if he's going to do that, I doubt he's going to do that, but I'm simply qualifying the ONLY way I'd support the suggestion stated in the topic.

I think more likely that it'll be something short of that, which is why it's very likely I wouldn't support actually attempting a shut down.
 
NIMBY said:
Too bad the Democrats weren't bright enough to use the last GOP shutdown to their advantage.
The GOP money-men would have smeared them to no end if roles were reversed.

While the Kochs and company were hammering Dem Senators like Hagan with tens of millions of negative ads after the ACA roll-out,
Dems played Dukakis/Horton on steroids and lost the election early and often.

By the time they spent money, it was far too late .
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Actually, they attempted to and showed great gains in polls. That was until the reality of Obama-care came to light. Many of those who cried out about the shutdown were suddenly asking themselves why the Republicans didn't do more to stop it and help the TEA Party guys.

The difference this time vs the Obama-care shutdown would be there is far less ambiguity about who is at fault. Obama's reticence to come to an agreement and to act constitutionally will be much more evident this time around. He will no longer have a Dem led senate to hide behind.
 
Zyphlin said:
This is why in every single thread I've discussed this I've highlighted, again and again, we don't know for sure what he's going to end up trying to do so there's no reason to get in any kind of serious uproar over this.

The discussion was about shutting down the government. The ONLY action that would get me supporting that would be if he tried to naturalize anyone in some form. I don't know if he's going to do that, I doubt he's going to do that, but I'm simply qualifying the ONLY way I'd support the suggestion stated in the topic.

I think more likely that it'll be something short of that, which is why it's very likely I wouldn't support actually attempting a shut down.
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I'm not even sure if Obama has the ability to grant "naturalization" to anyone...let alone a blanket naturalization to millions of illegal aliens. But, it appears his aim might be to grant "green cards" to those millions. That would be a different thing and I wonder if you think he would be justified in shutting down the government to defend that kind of action?
 
Zyphlin said:
So do you have a similar stance on believing that those in congress shouldn't disobey their constitutional duties and vote for bills they believe are wrong for the country? Or have you criticized the Republicans in congress at any point for not "compromising"?
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Can you direct me to the last immigration bill the House has discussed on its floor since it took over in 2011 ?
 
Mycroft said:
I'm not even sure if Obama has the ability to grant "naturalization" to anyone...let alone a blanket naturalization to millions of illegal aliens. But, it appears his aim might be to grant "green cards" to those millions. That would be a different thing and I wonder if you think he would be justified in shutting down the government to defend that kind of action?
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A green card is a direct step in the naturalization process, as one is required to be a permanent residence to be naturalized. I would see granting ANY illegal aliens permanent legal residence status as beginning them in the process of becoming naturalized and outside of the scope of the Presidency unless EXPLICTELY vested to the President via law, and then ONLY in ways specifically stated in said law.

To me that's a step in the naturalization process, and one of those game changing "permanent" actions I spoke of that will likely never be overturned. Allowing these people to stay temporarily for the next two years by directing enforcement to ignore them is one thing...giving them permanent legal residency that starts the path down naturalization is another entirely.

If he does that then it needs to be shut down and they seriously need to consider impeachment based on Article 1, Section 8, Clause 4.
 
Why not have the House throw a bone to the President by actually working on their own compromise IR legislation?
Now that they have used inaction this past year to win an election, what are they waiting for?

This would indeed give Mr. Obama a reason to not act unilaterally.
As with other issues, when will this House act and then agree to go to Joint-Conference, the Constitutional mechanism?

And yes, I'm fully aware of how scared the GOP House is with acting on IR after what happened to Cantor ?

Mycroft said:
I'm not even sure if Obama has the ability to grant "naturalization" to anyone...let alone a blanket naturalization to millions of illegal aliens. But, it appears his aim might be to grant "green cards" to those millions. That would be a different thing and I wonder if you think he would be justified in shutting down the government to defend that kind of action?
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NIMBY said:
Can you direct me to the last immigration bill the House has discussed on its floor since it took over in 2011 ?
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No, if you'd like to debate a strawman of your own creation you're perfectly capable of doing that without my involvement. Your question has nothing to do with my statement or the conversation I'm having.
 
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