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Thread: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

  1. #31
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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration



    In contrast, last time the GOP shut down the government:

    Poll: Major damage to GOP after shutdown, and broad dissatisfaction with government - The Washington Post



    Polls: Shutdown nightmare for Republicans - Tal Kopan - POLITICO.com
    Poll shows Republicans taking blame for government shutdown - Los Angeles Times
    Boomerang! Poll Reveals GOP's Government Shutdown Bolstered Obamacare's Popularity By 20% - Forbes
    Poll: Government Shutdown Damages GOP - Business Insider

    I'm sure that this time, a government shutdown will be positive for the GOPs image. Flight attendants, PR appointees and HS students will support this and it will give the GOP an even bigger majority in 2016. Using the shutdown option will also bring in support from Independents. They seem to be in favor of such things.
    Shutdowns hurt both parties and the president. It is very true the last shut down hurt the Republicans the most, but the Democrats didn't escape. Two stats here from the number guy. President Obama in September had a 46% approval rating, at the end of October it had fallen to 41%. It has pretty much stayed right there since then.

    Party affiliation, pre-shutdown Democrats 35%, Republicans 30% Independents 32%. Post shutdown Democrats 30%, Republicans 21% Independents 47%. That is the highest percentage for independent since the shutdown. A year latter at the end of September 2014 the numbers stood Democrats 29%, Republicans 26% and Independents 42%. I haven't seen any figures for after the election.

    Now independents seem to blame both sides or all sides more than taking sides. I should say the biggest chunk. Although the second biggest chunk would probably support the president with the smallest the congress. That is the nature of independents who want nothing else than the parties to work together.

    I think in a long winded way what I am saying all parties get hurt, the president get hurt the least. Probably because he has the bully pulpit and he can shout blame the loudest.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    And will cause a veto of the bill--shutting down the gov't just in time for what looks like an economically good Christmas.
    The GOP plans on screwing up the omnibus process three weeks at a time, giving no confidence to their own business people .
    If Obama vetoes a funding bill (for whatever reason), and the government shuts down, isn't that more his fault then? What's he gonna say?
    'I coulnd't sign this funding bill because it didn't contain the funding for my amnesty EO which is deeply unpopular with the voters' ?
    'Because my amnesty EO is a vital and critical part of the federal government, which can't function without it' ?

    The more I think about it, the more I think that he'll let it go, and complain to the Spanish news channels about 'those rotten Republicans who took their amnesty away'.

    Yeah, but some say that it's a DC rule or something that anytime the government shuts down, it's all the Republican's fault. Maybe not this time?
    the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigation

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration



    In contrast, last time the GOP shut down the government:

    Poll: Major damage to GOP after shutdown, and broad dissatisfaction with government - The Washington Post



    Polls: Shutdown nightmare for Republicans - Tal Kopan - POLITICO.com
    Poll shows Republicans taking blame for government shutdown - Los Angeles Times
    Boomerang! Poll Reveals GOP's Government Shutdown Bolstered Obamacare's Popularity By 20% - Forbes
    Poll: Government Shutdown Damages GOP - Business Insider

    I'm sure that this time, a government shutdown will be positive for the GOPs image. Flight attendants, PR appointees and HS students will support this and it will give the GOP an even bigger majority in 2016. Using the shutdown option will also bring in support from Independents. They seem to be in favor of such things.
    There are a few problems here.

    1. According to the article, one Republican contemplates a government shutdown. It makes no mention of at least 3 other Republicans, on Sunday, who said there is no contemplation of shutting down the government. Yet, the headline makes it sound like ALL the Republicans are on board. Reality is, nothing could be further from the truth.

    2. The responsibility for shutting down the government depends on public perception...and who directs that perception. The Constitution directs that Congress construct and pass laws and that the President approves or vetoes the law. If Obama vetoes a law that results in a government shut down, then HE is responsible for the shut down. Simple logic. Unfortunately, logic won't come into play. Lies and spin by the Democrats...and their media buddies...will.

    3. I think there is a saying in investments...something like, "Past performance does not guarantee future results." The same holds true here. We have different issues...different public perception of those issues...etc. All of the expected lies and spin from the Democrats and media just may not do the job...and Obama very well could take the heat for a government shut down.

    So...there are a few options the Republicans might take to deal with this issue and a government shut down tactic may or may not be used. If it is, it's not certain that the Republicans will take the heat.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    I haven't seen one pro-business group that doesn't want a fix to immigration reform.
    In fact, many of them are on board with whatever the President does because IR is such a problem for them .
    How many of them have you seen screaming for amnesty?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    If Obama vetoes a funding bill (for whatever reason), and the government shuts down, isn't that more his fault then? What's he gonna say?
    'I coulnd't sign this funding bill because it didn't contain the funding for my amnesty EO which is deeply unpopular with the voters' ?
    'Because my amnesty EO is a vital and critical part of the federal government, which can't function without it' ?

    The more I think about it, the more I think that he'll let it go, and complain to the Spanish news channels about 'those rotten Republicans who took their amnesty away'.

    Yeah, but some say that it's a DC rule or something that anytime the government shuts down, it's all the Republican's fault. Maybe not this time?
    It's the Presidents job to veto bills he feels are wrong for the country, it is in the Constitution. It is the Congress's job to pass bills that will be signed into law or have the votes to override a veto. If Congress is unable to do either they fail and they have no one to blame but themselves. That is how governing works in America in case you have also forgotten like the Republicans in Washington have.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 11-17-14 at 01:01 AM.

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    "All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other bills." U.S.C. Art. I, sec. 7, cl. 1

    The Framers gave the House, as the chamber most responsive to the people, the power of the purse so the people would have a powerful way to rein in the federal government. It is completely legitimate for the people's representatives to stop a President from abusing his authority by refusing to fund the abuse. But I think by surrendering beforehand, the Republican leadership has already made the power of the purse largely useless as a way to prevent Mr. Obama from granting amnesty to millions of illegal aliens. They have made sure the threat of cutting off the necessary funds is not credible.

    The right way to stop this President from doing what he is threatening to is to impeach him if he does. This gross abuse of the pardon power Mr. Obama is planning would be only the latest in a long catalog of offenses he has committed against the public trust, even if probably the most outrageous one of all. Everything Richard Nixon did to undermine the structure of this country's government already pales in comparison. Barack Obama is engaging--has time and again engaged in for six years now--just the kind of abuse of executive power that impeachment was meant to remedy. It is an extreme measure, but no more extreme than the flagrant contempt for the Constitution that has called for it. No one should tolerate this kind of lawless rule, although I am sure people who share Mr. Obama's disdain for most things American hope for even more of it.

    Hamilton discussed impeachment in detail in Federalist No. 65. This is part of what he wrote:

    "The subjects of [the] jurisdiction [of a well constituted court for the trial of impeachments] are those offenses which proceed from the misconduct of public men, or, in other words, from the abuse or violation of some public trust. They are of a nature which may with peculiar propriety be denominated POLITICAL, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself."

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    It's the Presidents job to veto bills he feels are wrong for the country, it is in the Constitution. It is the Congress's job to pass bills that will be signed into law or have the votes to override a veto. If Congress is unable to do either they fail and they have no one to blame but themselves. That is how governing works in America in case you have also forgotten like the Republicans in Washington have.
    The sentence I highlighted is inaccurate. It should read as follows:

    "It is the Congress's job to pass bills that it THINKS are right for the country."

    I find it notable that you think the President should base his action on what he FEELS. I guess that's because, like you, the President is a liberal and liberals are known to go by what they feel...not by any kind of thinking.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    The sentence I highlighted is inaccurate. It should read as follows:

    "It is the Congress's job to pass bills that it THINKS are right for the country."

    I find it notable that you think the President should base his action on what he FEELS. I guess that's because, like you, the President is a liberal and liberals are known to go by what they feel...not by any kind of thinking.
    Only a Conservative would be able to think without feeling. Most of us do both, you know.
    Congress passing bills that they know will be vetoed is an exercise in failure. It takes work to get things done. I fear they have forgotten how. We will see.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 11-17-14 at 01:39 AM.

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    The implied assumption is that the GOP will shutdown the government. That's not yet happened, and I kinda doubt that's what the GOP leadership will allow to happen, they may not be able to prevent it.

    At present, they are only considering it.

    Seems that regardless of the situation whenever there's a government shutdown, the rule in DC is to blame the Republicans.

    One can only hope that the GOP comes up with something better than this to oppose Obama's unpopular immigration OE plans.
    actually they wouldn't shut down the government Obama's veto would shut down the government the house and senate republicans would pass a bill
    that would just not include funding Obama's EO. which means they would basically not allow what he wants to occur to occur.

    they would pass a normal budget that doesn't include something the president wants. if he veto's it then it would be Obama shutting down the government not republicans.

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    Re: Republicans weigh government shutdown to stop Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Right and when Obama vetos their poor excuses for legislation they will be back to the same. Inability to govern is not attractive to voters forever..
    poor excuse for legislation = I can't have my way. which sums it up for Obama's attitude.

    no they are going to pass a bill. that bill simply won't allow Obama to break this countries constitution or laws. if Obama veto's the bill that is not the fault of the republicans.
    that is squarely on Obama for shutting down the government.

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